Korean War

S
SDUSA
楼主 (文学城)

"On March 5, 1953, Joseph Stalin died, and within weeks the Politburo of the Soviet Communist Party voted that the war in Korea should be ended. Mao Zedong received the news with dismay, but he knew that his army could not continue the war without Soviet assistance. With a speed that amazed the negotiating teams on both sides, the Chinese accepted voluntary repatriation. "

https://www.britannica.com/event/Korean-War/Introduction

S
SDUSA
2 楼
联合国军就这样被迫在停战协议上签了字。
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Who_Who
3 楼
协议是双方吧,你说说美国为什么同意呢,呵呵
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LogicalPls
4 楼
哦?看来毛一定在原来的条件上大幅让步,以迅速达成停战。那么,原来美军希望的条件是什么呢?在汉城以南停火?
S
SDUSA
5 楼
读完就知道了。后面有详细介绍。
L
LogicalPls
6 楼
总不会原来美军大占上风,坚持在鸭绿江边停火;一看中国急着停火,马上让步到38线?可以告诉我你的逻辑吗?
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Who_Who
7 楼
你应该贴一下,IKE竞选,当选,就职关于朝鲜战争都做了什么,呵呵
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LogicalPls
8 楼
这样的情况证明谁停火前占上风?
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SDUSA
9 楼
我只是分享我读到的。你愿意分享,就贴。不愿意,就罢。
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Who_Who
10 楼
好像没怎么提IKE啊
S
SDUSA
11 楼
当然是中国啦。
S
SDUSA
12 楼
你可以贴啊。请转原文。
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Who_Who
13 楼
签字是艾克当家,没TRUMAN什么事。
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LogicalPls
14 楼
您读了,也转了。可以告诉我们您读出什么结论了吗?我怎么也不能站在你的立场上,找出对你有利的结论。很惊讶。解释一下吧
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LogicalPls
15 楼
您是说,在出现了对中国不利的突发事件后,中国让步,最后促成了这个全世界(包括美国)都认为对美国不是胜利的协议?
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Who_Who
16 楼
艾克竞选期间说去朝鲜,当选后就职前去了,实地评估,双方僵局,就职后半年签字了,期间还发生麦克阿瑟有妙计的闹剧。
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LogicalPls
17 楼
明白了。您这回屁股放错地方,希望不要被扣工资。
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bluesky231
18 楼
仔细读基辛格博士:美国断定“中国没有能力出兵和美国对阵”,“以武力统一全朝鲜”,这是美国的如意算盘
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SDUSA
19 楼
没有结论。每个读者可以自己得出结论。当然,

原文陈述的不一定对。

S
SDUSA
20 楼
参见第9页。
b
bluesky231
21 楼
然而在拥有巨大武力优势下,第一次在没能取得战争胜利的情势下签订停战协定,你能说是出于自愿签的
S
SDUSA
22 楼
请给原文,而不是什么“基辛格博士说。。”云云。
S
SDUSA
23 楼
同样参见第9页。
S
SDUSA
24 楼
不劳担忧。
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Who_Who
25 楼
好像你推荐我读TRUMAN,我也推荐你读IKE吧。
青松站
26 楼
嗯,是英国人说得不错,可后来的苏伊士运河一幕:更应证了西方人不情愿的认了下风、抗美援朝的"外溢效应"很明显,套用一句流行术语一一
青松站
27 楼
基辛格也是讲英文的吧,他怎么会看不到抗美援朝的"外溢效应",不然的话尼克松访华又是为了什么,都是此外溢效应的一部分……
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LogicalPls
28 楼
我在问您的结论和逻辑过程。话说半截可没有说服力。被人追问时,只说“不是我,是别人”也很没担当。您应该不是这样,对吗?
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LogicalPls
29 楼
要是您读了,也转帖在这里,但其实根本没读懂,不知所云,那最好搞明白了再贴,浪费网络空间不好。
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SDUSA
30 楼
没有结论。也确实“不是我”。没有担当。
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bluesky231
31 楼
有求实精神好,基辛格On China, p122-125, p138-139
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Who_Who
32 楼
Page 9, not mention IKE
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SDUSA
33 楼
行啊,您给个链接吧。
S
SDUSA
34 楼
here.....

The Chinese need not have worried, for both Eisenhower and secretary of state-designate Dulles viewed continuation of the Korean War as incompatible with U.S. national security interests. In their view the People’s Republic of China was indeed the enemy in Asia, but Korea was only one theatre in the struggle. They also knew that the voting public’s support for the war had thinned throughout 1952 as the talking and fighting continued abroad and the talking and taxing continued at home. As for the negotiations, Dulles conceded the communists’ point that voluntary repatriation should involve screening by an international agency, not just U.S.-ROK teams. When the UN and the International Committee of the Red Cross called for an exchange of sick and disabled POWs as a goodwill gesture, Eisenhower approved.

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Who_Who
35 楼
This paragraph made sense.
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SDUSA
36 楼
非得告诉您结论?谁有这个义务?

这篇长文将朝鲜战争的过程以及52年末的局势讲的清清楚楚,也分析了美军将领当时的看法和对策。读者读完了不难得出结论。只是这个结论不是中国官方的。

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LogicalPls
37 楼
可是您读过了,也不知其所云,贴来浪费我们的时间吗?
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LogicalPls
38 楼
说话没担当,叫人如何相信你的话呀。转帖不知原帖的意义,一味搬运,松鼠也比您有主意,有选择呀!
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SDUSA
39 楼
你可以不读的。我上面一帖已经很清楚了,结论就在那里。

你自己也许根本没读完。

S
SDUSA
40 楼
我把这段全贴这里了,请指出您说的在哪里。谢谢

Sino-American Confrontation
The United States was a passive observer to these
internal Communist machinations. It explored no middle
ground between stopping at the 38th parallel and the
unification of Korea, and ignored the series of Chinese
warnings about the consequences of crossing that line.
Acheson puzzlingly did not consider them official
communications and thought they could be ignored. He
probably thought he could face Mao down.
None of the many documents published to date by all
sides reveals any serious discussion of a diplomatic option
by any of the parties. The many meetings of Zhou with the
Central Military Commission or the Politburo reveal no such
intent. Contrary to popular perception, Beijing’s “warning” to
Washington not to cross the 38th parallel was almost
certainly a diversionary tactic. By that point, Mao had
already sent ethnic-Korean PLA troops from Manchuria to
Korea to assist the North Koreans, moved a significant
military force away from Taiwan and toward the Korean
border, and promised Chinese support to Stalin and Kim.
The only chance that might have existed to avoid
immediate U.S.-China combat can be found in instructions
Mao sent in a message to Zhou, still in Moscow, about his
strategic design on October 14, as Chinese troops were
preparing to cross the Korean border:
Our troops will continue improving [their] defense works if
they have enough time. If the enemy tenaciously defends
Pyongyang and Wonsan and does not advance [north] in
the next six months, our troops will not attack Pyongyang
and Wonsan. Our troops will attack Pyongyang and
Wonsan only when they are well equipped and trained, and
have clear superiority over the enemy in both air and
ground forces. In short, we will not talk about waging
offensives for six months.58
There was no chance, of course, that in six months China
could have achieved clear superiority in either category.
Had American forces stopped at the line, from
Pyongyang to Wonsan (the narrow neck of the Korean
Peninsula), would that have created a buffer zone to meet
Mao’s strategic concern? Would some American
diplomatic move toward Beijing have made any difference?
Would Mao have been satisfied with using his presence in
Korea to reequip his forces? Perhaps the six-month pause
Mao mentioned to Zhou would have provided an occasion
for diplomatic contact, for military warnings, or for Mao or
Stalin to change his mind. On the other hand, a buffer zone
on hitherto Communist territory was almost certainly not
Mao’s idea of his revolutionary or strategic duty. Still he
was enough of a Sun Tzu disciple to pursue seemingly
contradictory strategies simultaneously. The United States,
in any event, had no such capacity. It opted for a U.N.-
endorsed demarcation line along the Yalu over what it could
protect with its own forces and its own diplomacy along the
narrow neck of the Korean Peninsula.
In this manner, each side of the triangular relationship
moved toward a war with the makings of a global conflict.
The battle lines moved back and forth. Chinese forces took
Seoul but were driven back until a military stalemate settled
over the combat zone within the framework of armistice
negotiations lasting nearly two years, during which
American forces refrained from offensive operations—the
almost ideal outcome from the Soviet point of view. The
Soviet advice throughout was to drag out the negotiations,
and therefore the war, as long as possible. An armistice
agreement emerged on July 27, 1953, settling essentially
along the prewar line of the 38th parallel.
None of the participants achieved all of its aims. For the
United States, the armistice agreement realized the
purpose for which it had entered the war: it denied success
to the North Korean aggression; but it had, at the same
time, enabled China, at a moment of great weakness, to
fight the nuclear superpower to a standstill and oblige it to
retreat from its furthest advance. It preserved American
credibility in protecting allies but at the cost of incipient
allied revolt and domestic discord. Observers could not fail
to remember the debate that had developed in the United
States over war aims. General MacArthur, applying
traditional maxims, sought victory; the administration,
interpreting the war as a feint to lure America into Asia—
which was surely Stalin’s strategy—was prepared to settle
for a military draw (and probably a long-term political
setback), the first such outcome in a war fought by
America. The inability to harmonize political and military
goals may have tempted other Asian challengers to believe
in America’s domestic vulnerability to wars without clear-cut
military outcomes—a dilemma that reappeared with a
vengeance in the vortex of Vietnam a decade later.
Nor can Beijing be said to have achieved all its
objectives, at least in conventional military terms. Mao did
not succeed in liberating all of Korea from “American
imperialism,” as Chinese propaganda claimed initially. But
he had gone to war for larger and in some ways more
abstract, even romantic, aims: to test the “New China” with
a trial by fire and to purge what Mao perceived as China’s
historic softness and passivity; to prove to the West (and, to
some extent, the Soviet Union) that China was now a
military power and would use force to vindicate its interests;
to secure China’s leadership of the Communist movement
in Asia; and to strike at the United States (which Mao
believed was planning an eventual invasion of China) at a
moment he perceived as opportune. The principal
contribution of the new ideology was not its strategic
concepts so much as the willpower to defy the strongest
nations and to chart its own course.
In that broader sense, the Korean War was something
more than a draw. It established the newly founded
People’s Republic of China as a military power and center
of Asian revolution. It also built up military credibility that
China, as an adversary worthy of fear and respect, would
draw on through the next several decades. The memory of
Chinese intervention in Korea would later restrain U.S.
strategy significantly in Vietnam. Beijing succeeded in
using the war and the accompanying “Resist America, Aid
Korea” propaganda and purge campaign to accomplish
two central aims of Mao’s: to eliminate domestic
opposition to Party rule, and to instill “revolutionary
enthusiasm” and national pride in the population.
Nourishing resentment of Western exploitation, Mao
framed the war as a struggle to “defeat American
arrogance”; battlefield accomplishments were treated as a
form of spiritual rejuvenation after decades of Chinese
weakness and abuse. China emerged from the war
exhausted but redefined in both its own eyes and the
world’s.
Ironically, the biggest loser in the Korean War was Stalin,
who had given the green light to Kim Il-sung to start and had
urged, even blackmailed, Mao to intervene massively.
Encouraged by America’s acquiescence in the Communist
victory in China, he had calculated that Kim Il-sung could
repeat the pattern in Korea. The American intervention
thwarted that objective. He urged Mao to intervene,
expecting that such an act would create a lasting hostility
between China and the United States and increase China’s
dependence on Moscow.
Stalin was right in his strategic prediction but erred
grievously in assessing the consequences. Chinese
dependence on the Soviet Union was double-edged. The
rearmament of China that the Soviet Union undertook, in
the end, shortened the time until China would be able to act
on its own. The Sino-American schism Stalin was
promoting did not lead to an improvement of Sino-Soviet
relations, nor did it reduce China’s Titoist option. On the
contrary, Mao calculated that he could defy both
superpowers simultaneously. American conflicts with the
Soviet Union were so profound that Mao judged he needed
to pay no price for Soviet backing in the Cold War, indeed
that he could use it as a threat even without its approval, as
he did in a number of subsequent crises. Starting with the
end of the Korean War, Soviet relations with China
deteriorated, caused in no small part by the opaqueness
with which Stalin had encouraged Kim Il-sung’s adventure,
the brutality with which he had pressed China toward
intervention, and, above all, the grudging manner of Soviet
support, all of which was in the form of repayable loans.
Within a decade, the Soviet Union would become China’s
principal adversary. And before another decade had
passed, another reversal of alliance would take place.

S
SDUSA
41 楼
我有义务让别人相信我吗?您最好读完再来评论。
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LogicalPls
42 楼
就是不明白“美军大占上风,又出现了对中国不利的突发事件,怎么会促成了这个对美国不是胜利的协议”-- 想听听您的见解。
青松站
43 楼
从第一句开始,基辛格就是瞧不起杜勒斯那伙"老Con"们的死脑筋……
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SDUSA
44 楼
文中有说美军大占上风么?范弗利特和李奇微的观点文中已经说了。
青松站
45 楼
可见基氏观点一个特色,就是"圆通",但里根川普走回杜勒斯的老路,才是今天的危机所在…一一
军事调色板
46 楼
你好奇怪,你的文字里并没有提到联合国军啊?只是说中国和苏维埃,你应该知道,中国和苏联不叫联合国军的。
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SDUSA
47 楼
额的神啊!
军事调色板
48 楼
+100
S
SDUSA
49 楼
+1000
军事调色板
50 楼
没批格勒嗓子。