27神 就 照 着 自 己 的 形 像 造 人 ， 乃 是 照 着 他 的 形 像 造 男 造 女 。28 神 就 赐 福 给 他 们 ， 又 对 他 们 说 ： 要 生 养 众 多 ， 遍 满 地 面 ， 治 理 这 地 ， 也 要 管 理 海 里 的 鱼 、 空 中 的 鸟 ， 和 地 上 各 样 行 动 的 活 物 。 29 神 说 ： 看 哪 ， 我 将 遍 地 上 一 切 结 种 子 的 菜 蔬 和 一 切 树 上 所 结 有 核 的 果 子 全 赐 给 你 们 作 食 物 。 27So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. 28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.” 29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 我们可以看到上帝按自己的形象造了人，又赐福给他们。上帝对人的爱是毋庸置疑的。上帝又为人类提供了人类生存所需的食物。
创世纪1：31
31 神 看 着 一 切 所 造 的 都 甚 好 。 有 晚 上 ， 有 早 晨 ， 是 第 六 日 。 Genesis 1：31 31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 I did not say Genesis 1 is wrong. I said that there are all kinds of explanations. Some of them work well with science. 请问哪些“explanations”“work well with science”？谢谢。
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 发信人: bayharbor (龙虾), 信区: TrustInJesus 标 题: RE: 请问如何解释神七天创天地与物理学的矛盾 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Aug 16 23:52:05 2013, 美东) 去看看John Lennox 的 God and Stephan Hawking。 I did not read this book. I told you this part is not my interest. But I know John Lennox is great. Please read if you are interested. 我真的很鄙视也很厌恶你这样的治学态度。你既然没有读过，你凭什么说“there are all kinds of explanations. Some of them work well with science.”？？？？？ ？？？ 你连一个“work well with science”的“explanation”都拿不出来，你凭什么说“ there are all kinds of explanations. Some of them work well with science.” ？？？？？？？？ 尼玛！做人，要点脸皮行不行？！！！
【 在 biokold (kold) 的大作中提到: 】 第一句就错了。神没有造万物，水就不是神造的。水也是自有永有的。 zhaowendao, leonana, Eloihim, GWM, how many of you agree with biokold on the water issue. For those who does not agree with him, could you convince him that he is wrong? 而且神不止一个，造亚当的时候都说按我们的形象造人。后来还有很多地方用的是我们。
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 zhaowendao, leonana, Eloihim, GWM, how many of you agree with biokold on the water issue. For those who does not agree with him, could you convince him that he is wrong? 们。
I don't think this water is H2O. It used to be translated to be 'watery deep'. It probably has symbolic meanings, which I am not sure.
It is allowed to have things you are not sure in Bible. Especially in this chapter. This chapter is so profound.
I would not get to any unsure conclusions either.
But there are black and white things in bible, the creation of world by God is repeated in Bible many times. So I am sure God created the world. This is in fact the main theme of this chapter.
Those who are selectively blind to this main theme need to rethink their approach of reading bible.
I already put what I am kind of sure in my post.
【 在 dgkiller (杀猪刀) 的大作中提到: 】 水的问题你想出解法没有？要不要帮忙？ 【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 Why are you discussing this? This post is about genesis 1.
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 I don't think this water is H2O. It used to be translated to be 'watery deep '. It probably has symbolic meanings, which I am not sure. It is allowed to have things you are not sure in Bible. Especially in this chapter. This chapter is so profound. I would not get to any unsure conclusions either. But there are black and white things in bible, the creation of world by God is repeated in Bible many times. So I am sure God created the world. This is in fact the main theme of this chapter. I already put what I am kind of sure in my post. 水的问题你想出解法没有？要不要帮忙？
How did you know that I am at Harvard? What is your intention? If you did not explain this to me, I am about to report you to some agency. Don't be suprised, someone will invite you for a cup of tea someday.
【 在 dgkiller (杀猪刀) 的大作中提到: 】 那你think 是啥？ 跟你们教会的牧师商量过没有？ 是不是哈佛的都觉得自己特NB， 圣经想咋解就咋解。 deep God is
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 How did you know that I am at Harvard? What is your intention? If you did not explain this to me, I am about to report you to some agency. Don't be suprised, someone will invite you for a cup of tea someday. 你真的在哈佛吗？你是怎么混进去的？是不是富二代靠捐钱进去的？ 像你这样弱智的SB都能进哈佛的话，哈佛真的是堕落了。
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 How did you know that I am at Harvard? What is your intention? If you did not explain this to me, I am about to report you to some agency. Don't be suprised, someone will invite you for a cup of tea someday.
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 How did you know that I am at Harvard? What is your intention? If you did not explain this to me, I am about to report you to some agency. Don't be suprised, someone will invite you for a cup of tea someday.
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 How did you know that I am at Harvard? What is your intention? If you did not explain this to me, I am about to report you to some agency. Don't be suprised, someone will invite you for a cup of tea someday.
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 I don't think this water is H2O. It used to be translated to be 'watery deep '. It probably has symbolic meanings, which I am not sure. It is allowed to have things you are not sure in Bible. Especially in this chapter. This chapter is so profound. I would not get to any unsure conclusions either. But there are black and white things in bible, the creation of world by God is repeated in Bible many times. So I am sure God created the world. This is in fact the main theme of this chapter. Those who are selectively blind to this main theme need to rethink their approach of reading bible. ...................
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 How did you know that I am at Harvard? What is your intention? If you did not explain this to me, I am about to report you to some agency. Don't be suprised, someone will invite you for a cup of tea someday. Ha! Have some faith! This must have divine purpose. Or you think everything has a naturalistic explanation, like unbelievers do?
Great thinking! One thing I want to say is that: Gos is not a magician who performs miracles before people when we need him. God is God. God does what He wants to do.
【 在 riversnowfra (riversnowfra) 的大作中提到: 】 I'm not sure about God's creating the world, just as my not sure about human 's evolution from small molecules (yet). 上帝如果真的在 如果真的在大家面前展示他自己 还会有多少人不信？但就是这个如果 也只是一个如果而已。保持点open mind不是坏事。人家老美从小泡在教堂 数理化生 物一塌糊涂 进化论还不怎么让教 他们信信就罢了。中国人 特别是在这里泡bbs的学了 那么多年理工 随便一点常识性的东西 都能让圣经的各种教义变的不可信。宗教的东西 还是就别牵强的想要用科学来解释了。 看了这么久，我觉得吧，版上所谓的基并不一定都是真正意义上的基 而反基的呢 也不 一定就都是真正的在反。骂来骂去 一团浆糊。
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 Great thinking! One thing I want to say is that: Gos is not a magician who performs miracles before people when we need him. Same excuse can apply for any non-existent beging. God is God. God does what He wants to do. Again, same excuse.
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 Great thinking! One thing I want to say is that: Gos is not a magician who performs miracles before people when we need him. God is God. God does what He wants to do. human
Which non-existent being are you talking about, can you list them out? Are any of them recorded by a carefully and faithfully preserved book like Bible?
【 在 Eloihim (真神) 的大作中提到: 】 Same excuse can apply for any non-existent beging. Again, same excuse.
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 Which non-existent being are you talking about, can you list them out? Are any of them recorded by a carefully and faithfully preserved book like Bible?
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 Which non-existent being are you talking about, can you list them out? Are any of them recorded by a carefully and faithfully preserved book like Bible? It's so funny you called bible "a carefully and faithfully preserved book". Have you seen the original bible manuscript? Why do you think Jewish mythology is more real than Greek/Roman mythology?
Because Greeks and Romans doesn't believe Gree/Roman mythology themselves.
【 在 Eloihim (真神) 的大作中提到: 】 Bible? It's so funny you called bible "a carefully and faithfully preserved book" . Have you seen the original bible manuscript? Why do you think Jewish mythology is more real than Greek/Roman mythology?
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 Because Greeks and Romans doesn't believe Gree/Roman mythology themselves.: . You mean like Jews don't believe Jesus? Actually, most Jews are atheists now.
I will talked about this later. All these are done by Roman Catholic Church. The Church got all the money and power and they develop creeds too much and finally they care only about their creeds not Bible. During this medieval time there is no development in Christian theology. Seemingly, they make Christian a leading religion, in fact, they killed the real religion. But reformation changed all these. People come back to Bible, and put creeds lower than bible.
Do you also know that before what you mentioned, early Christians are persecuted for more than 200 years?
“Christians are persecuted for more than 200 years”， so what?
what's you point of Christianity destroy the our cultures ? It is right thing?
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 I will talked about this later. All these are done by Roman Catholic Church. The Church got all the money and power and they develop creeds too much and finally they care only about their creeds not Bible. During this medieval time there is no development in Christian theology. Seemingly, they make Christian a leading religion, in fact, they killed the real religion. But : reformation changed all these. People come back to Bible, and put creeds lower than bible. Do you also know that before what you mentioned, early Christians are persecuted for more than 200 years?
No! Roman Catholic Church made mistakes. That's sad. We don't want that to happen again. That's why we all read bible, instead of using creeds alone.
【 在 dgkiller (杀猪刀) 的大作中提到: 】 “Christians are persecuted for more than 200 years”， so what? what's you point of Christianity destroy the our cultures ? It is right thing?
我就不明白了， 你刚刚还在“Because Greeks and Romans doesn't believe Gree/ Roman mythology themselves.”，以罗马教皇的暴行结果为骄傲， 转眼就“Roman Catholic Church made mistakes”。。。这脸变的那个叫快。
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 No! Roman Catholic Church made mistakes. That's sad. We don't want that to happen again. That's why we all read bible, instead of using creeds alone.
Sure! If you are talking about England. It is almost the same story. King James want to depart from Roman Catholic but also know that a complete freedom of reading and explaining scripture doesn't work well with his Kingship. It's like a new Church country, though better but still not the perfect way. That's why there is may flowers and today's United States.
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 Sure! If you are talking about England. It is almost the same story. King : James want to depart from Roman Catholic but also know that a complete freedom of reading and explaining scripture doesn't work well with his Kingship. It's like a new Church country, though better but still not the : perfect way. That's why there is may flowers and today's United States.
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 What are you talking about? When did Martin Luther kill Jews? Which Calvin are you talking about? ， 你要是无知， 我可以给你科普一下， 要装傻就算了， 知道塞尔维特不？ 读过马丁的《犹太人和他们的谎言》没有？ 另外美国清教徒的政教合一政权， 现在还有博物馆，在VA， 你可以去现场感受一下。比罗马那个过之而无不及。 你丫怎么混进哈佛的呀？ 能不能介绍下经验？ LOL
I didn't say I am at Harvard. You said. I only asked how did you know I am at Harvard. If you don't tell me how you did that I will not share my experience. LOL.
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 I am sorry I don't know, please show them? About Calvin, Martin Luther. In Bible, God love King David. But David slept with his friend's wife and : killed his friend. Does God's chosen people did evil make God evil? God then punished him by killing his son. So this means that God hate evil right? Now you will say again God is evil and kill baby, right? God is both just (punish David's sin) and evil (kill his baby). In your eyes, bible is full of contradictions. Because you are not reading, but trying to find contradictions.
【 在 dgkiller (杀猪刀) 的大作中提到: 】 你要是无知， 我可以给你科普一下， 要装傻就算了， 知道塞尔维特不？ 读过马丁的《犹太人和他们的谎言》没有？ No, I didn't read it. Does this book said Martin kill Jews? 另外美国清教徒的政教合一政权， 现在还有博物馆，在VA， 你可以去现场感受一下。 比罗马那个过之而无不及。 你丫怎么混进哈佛的呀？ 能不能介绍下经验？ LOL
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 No, I didn't read it. Does this book said Martin kill Jews? 这些犹太人是如此的绝望、邪恶、毒意和被魔鬼所占据，1400年来他们是我们的疟疾、鼠疫和所有的不幸，而且还一直是。他们是真的魔鬼。 假如我能够的话，我希望将他（犹太人）打倒在地上，在我的愤怒中用剑将他刺穿。 是的，他们将我们（基督徒）束缚在我们自己的国土中，他们让我们劳汉耕作来赚得金钱和财产，而他们自己则坐在火炉后面偷懒、睡觉、烤洋梨、吃、喝、享受，用我们劳作来的财产，用他们的高利贷将我们和我们的财产束缚在他们的链子上，然后还嘲笑我们，对我们吐痰，让我们劳作，而他们却成了懒惰的地主……他们成了我们的主人，我们成了他们的仆人。 然后他列出对待犹太人的七步计划： 第一，点燃他们的犹太教堂和学校，所有无法烧的东西都埋到地里，这样从此无人可以再看到它的一砖一瓦。我们应该这样做，奉献给我们的主和整个基督社会，让神看到，我们是基督徒。 第二，同样破坏和摧毁他们的住房，因为他们在他们的住房里做与在他们的学校里同样的事。然后象吉普赛人一样将他们圈在一个大厅或畜栏里，好让他们知道在我们的国土内他们不是主人。 第三，没收所有他们的书和经书，因为在这些书里他们传播偶像崇拜、谎言、诅咒和对神的诽谤。 第四，禁止他们的拉比教书。 第五，不向犹太人提供保护，不许他们使用街道。 第六，禁止他们放高利贷，没收他们的钱币和金银。 第七，给年轻和健壮的犹太人镰刀、斧头、铲子、纺织机，让他们用自己的汗水赚他们的面包。 马丁路德： 《犹太人和他们的谎言》
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 No, I didn't read it. Does this book said Martin kill Jews? 马丁的布道： “处死女巫是一个正义的法律，因为她们会造成许多破坏，至今为止人们忽视了这些破坏。她们可以从其他人家里偷牛奶、奶油和所有的东西……她们可以将儿童变成别的东西……她们也可以在人的膝盖中造成神秘的病，使得人身摧残……她们造成身心摧残，她们酿造魔剂和召唤魔鬼，散布仇恨、炙爱、坏天气和对房屋和田地的破坏，从一里以外或更远她们就可以射她们的魔箭，而别人察觉不到她们……, 女巫必须被处死，因为她们是小偷、奸妇、强盗、杀人犯……她们破坏巨大。因此她们必须被处死，不只因为她们造成破坏，而因为她们与魔鬼接触。”
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 No, I didn't read it. Does this book said Martin kill Jews? 马丁·路德论圣战： 在这样的战争中，放心地去掐死敌人、掠夺、放火、做一切有害的事，直到敌人被战胜，这也是基督精神的、爱的做工。尽管掐人和抢劫看起来不象是爱的做工，并且头脑简单的人会因此而认为，这不是基督精神做工，不该由基督徒来干，但是，这实际上也是爱的做工。
His book said this so what? Is it bible? Is he God?
Why do anyone need to follow his word?
Like I said in floor 62. God's chosen people's sin doesn't means God's evil.
We take Martin Luther's good thought, not all his thought.
That's exactly the problem of worshiping people. People errs. We used to worship Chairman Mao. But he is human and made mistakes. But God's way is always right.
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 No, I didn't read it. Does this book said Martin kill Jews? 马丁·路德谈政治 我，马丁·路德，在动乱时杀死了所有的农民，因为是我让人去杀他们的。他们的血都在我的脖子上。但是，我将这一切归为我们的主和上帝，是他命令我这么说的。( Tischreden; Erlanger Ed., Vol. 59. p. 284) 杀死一个农民并不是谋杀；这是帮忙扑灭森林大火。这里没有中间措施！不留余力地打垮他们！割断他们的喉咙！钉住他们！杀死一个农民就是毁灭一条疯狗！……如果他们说我是无情而残忍，（要知道）怜悯是该被诅咒的。让每一个人刺死、扼死、像对待一群疯狗一样杀死他们。(Erlangen Vol 24, Pg. 294) 上帝给了他的法律，却没人注意到。他额外设立了审判者，驭者和牧者；故统治者当以驾驭、打击、绞死、烧死、砍头来对待庸俗下流的乌合之众。(Erlangen Vol 15, Pg. 276) 王公贵族从何取得权力并不取决于我们。这是上帝的意愿，无需考虑他们是偷来的还是抢来的。(Weimar Vol. 30, Pg. 1) 普通人就像骡子，除非你不断鞭挞，否则他们不会前进，故权力者应当通过鞭打、窒息、绞死、烧死、砍头和折磨来让他们懂得畏惧权力。 (El. ed. 15, 276, quoted by O'Hare, in 'The Facts About Luther, TAN Books, 1987, p. 235.) 农民就像肥猪，猪被屠宰时就死了，农民也从不考虑来生。否则他会表现得很不一样。 ('Schlaginhaufen,' 'Aufzeichnungen,' p. 118, quoted ibid., p. 241)
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 No, I didn't read it. Does this book said Martin kill Jews? 马丁·路德谈婚姻 如果丈夫不情愿，那另一个是谁；如果妻子不情愿，那就把女佣叫来。 圣典并不反对一个男人拥有多位妻子。 上帝的言行非常清楚，那就是，女人被造（的目的）要么是妻子，要么是娼妓。( Of Married Life ) 坦白的说我不能禁止一个人娶多位妻子，因为这与圣典并不相悖。如果一位男人希望娶多位妻子，应被询问他是否符合自己的良知，如此他可符合上帝的言语做这样的事（娶多位妻子）(De Wette II, 459, ibid., pp. 329-330.)
You should also mention that Americans used to cite Bible to support slavery.
They were wrong. They used bible in a wrong way.
Like I said in floor 62. God's chosen people's sin doesn't means God's evil.
I will post how to read and use bible properly. Believe me, it is in fact super difficult, people will be too scared to use this method in the beginning. But we got to do it anyway.
That's almost a rule that when Christian dominates, it's theology stagnates. That's people's problem. When people get pride, they forget about Bible and make themselves' thoughts and words higher than bible.
【 在 dgkiller (杀猪刀) 的大作中提到: 】 马丁·路德谈婚姻 如果丈夫不情愿，那另一个是谁；如果妻子不情愿，那就把女佣叫来。 圣典并不反对一个男人拥有多位妻子。 上帝的言行非常清楚，那就是，女人被造（的目的）要么是妻子，要么是娼妓。( Of Married Life )
坦白的说我不能禁止一个人娶多位妻子，因为这与圣典并不相悖。如果一位男人希 望娶多位妻子，应被询问他是否符合自己的良知，如此他可符合上帝的言语做这样的事 （娶多位妻子）(De Wette II, 459, ibid., pp. 329-330.)
So, what? 新教和天主教，一丘之貉而已。。。不要光看着 人家天主教裤裆里的黄泥， 忘了自己屁股上的屎。
你们新教徒follow他的不少，希特勒就是一个（虽然他名义上是天主教徒）。
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 His book said this so what? Is it bible? Is he God? Why do anyone need to follow his word? Like I said in floor 62. God's chosen people's sin doesn't means God's evil. We take Martin Luther's good thought, not all his thought. That's exactly the problem of worshiping people. People errs. We used to worship Chairman Mao. But he is human and made mistakes. But God's way is : always right.
USA is the biggest partner of Israel. None of these make any sense when we talk about God.
When we talk about God, only reliable source is Bible.
Again God's people's sin is already described in Bible, from the first book to the last.
God's persistence is also shown through out of Bible. God want all people understand what evil is like and hate evil and truly repent and rely on God. God send his only son,
神爱世人，甚至将他的独生子赐给他们，叫一切信他的，不至灭亡，反得永生。
--圣经，约翰福音，3章16节
Jesus is called prince of peace. Now we know that using violence cannot achieve peace. That's why Jesus told us to love our enemies. All the people was off this track. They are right somewhere. But their human pride destroyed them. They did not rely on Jesus's words.
你在JJYY一千遍，也搽不干净新教和天主教P股上的屎。。。以后就别再来啥 It is Rome Catholic's fault, none of our business.... 徒增笑尔。
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 USA is the biggest partner of Israel. None of these make any sense when we talk about God. When we talk about God, only reliable source is Bible. Again God's people's sin is already described in Bible, from the first book to the last. God's persistence is also shown through out of Bible. God want all people : understand what evil is like and hate evil and truly repent and rely on God. God send his only son, 神爱世人，甚至将他的独生子赐给他们，叫一切信他的，不至灭亡，反得永生。 --圣经，约翰福音，3章16节 ...................
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 When we talk about God, only reliable source is Bible. 那么， 按照“圣经”，耶和华/耶稣多次大规模屠杀婴儿，请问你赞美耶和华/耶稣的这些暴行吗？ 按照“圣经”，耶和华/耶稣甚至还__主动地__有意地__使__人们吃自己儿女的肉，请 问你赞美耶和华/耶稣如此邪恶的行径吗？ 你的回答是什么？“赞美”？还是“不赞美”？
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 I am sorry I don't know, please show them? About Calvin, Martin Luther. In Bible, God love King David. But David slept with his friend's wife and : killed his friend. Does God's chosen people did evil make God evil? God then punished him by killing his son. So this means that God hate evil right? Now you will say again God is evil and kill baby, right? God is both just (punish David's sin) and evil (kill his baby). In your eyes, bible is full of contradictions. Because you are not reading, but trying to find contradictions.
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 You should also mention that Americans used to cite Bible to support slavery. They were wrong. They used bible in a wrong way. Like I said in floor 62. God's chosen people's sin doesn't means God's evil. I will post how to read and use bible properly. Believe me, it is in fact : super difficult, people will be too scared to use this method in the beginning. But we got to do it anyway. That's almost a rule that when Christian dominates, it's theology stagnates. That's people's problem. When people get pride, they forget about Bible and make themselves' thoughts and words higher than bible.
I don't think slavery is good. I don't want to be a slave. What does Bible say?
1 Peter 2 18 Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God.
People used to use this verse to support slavery. Do you think this verse support slavery?
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 I don't think slavery is good. I don't want to be a slave. What does Bible say? 1 Peter 2 18 Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not : only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. People used to use this verse to support slavery. Do you think this verse : support slavery? Yes. Tell slaves to obey their masters. If this doesn't support slavery, what does? You might want to list some verses that ask masters to free their slaves, then I'll change my view.
【 在 Eloihim (真神) 的大作中提到: 】 harsh. Yes. Tell slaves to obey their masters. If this doesn't support slavery, what does? You might want to list some verses that ask masters to free their slaves, : then I'll change my view. 感谢神又送来了杨杰生这么个活宝。 估计人家活宝又没按字面理解。
We need to know during the time when the book was written, slavery does exist. But the slavery at that time is different from the slavery of black people in the US. At that time, if one went broke and cannot pay debt, he need to sold himself as a slave to work for lender. It is not based on race.
God did condemned certain kind of slavery, God brought Israel out of slavery from Egypt. God sent plagues to Egyptians who tried to keep Israel as slaves.
We need to be very careful when we apply bible verses to our daily lives. Many verses are not directly application today like in US, there is no slavery anymore. Bible did not say we need to keep slavery at all times. We always understand bible in a descriptive way instead of in a prescriptive way. Today, maybe we can understand it as employer and employee relation. But now, we have all kinds of laws to protect both employer and employee already. So i don't think this verse is that useful anymore.
【 在 Eloihim (真神) 的大作中提到: 】 harsh. Yes. Tell slaves to obey their masters. If this doesn't support slavery, what does? You might want to list some verses that ask masters to free their slaves, : then I'll change my view.
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 We need to know during the time when the book was written, slavery does exist. But the slavery at that time is different from the slavery of black people in the US. At that time, if one went broke and cannot pay debt, he : need to sold himself as a slave to work for lender. It is not based on race. God did condemned certain kind of slavery, God brought Israel out of slavery from Egypt. God sent plagues to Egyptians who tried to keep Israel as slaves. We need to be very careful when we apply bible verses to our daily lives. : Many verses are not directly application today like in US, there is no slavery anymore. Bible did not say we need to keep slavery at all times. We ...................
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 You should also mention that Americans used to cite Bible to support slavery. They were wrong. They used bible in a wrong way. Like I said in floor 62. God's chosen people's sin doesn't means God's evil. I will post how to read and use bible properly. Believe me, it is in fact : super difficult, people will be too scared to use this method in the beginning. But we got to do it anyway. That's almost a rule that when Christian dominates, it's theology stagnates. That's people's problem. When people get pride, they forget about Bible and make themselves' thoughts and words higher than bible.
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 We need to know during the time when the book was written, slavery does exist. But the slavery at that time is different from the slavery of black people in the US. At that time, if one went broke and cannot pay debt, he : need to sold himself as a slave to work for lender. It is not based on race. God did condemned certain kind of slavery, God brought Israel out of slavery from Egypt. God sent plagues to Egyptians who tried to keep Israel as slaves. We need to be very careful when we apply bible verses to our daily lives. : Many verses are not directly application today like in US, there is no slavery anymore. Bible did not say we need to keep slavery at all times. We ...................
【 在 JasonYang (Jason) 的大作中提到: 】 I don't think slavery is good. I don't want to be a slave. What does Bible say? 1 Peter 2 18 Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not : only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. People used to use this verse to support slavery. Do you think this verse : support slavery?
的言论，因为他们的理解很偏激。
Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
創 世 記 1
1起 初 ， 神 创 造 天 地 。
这里的天地指所有东西，宇宙万物，。。。。。
这是这一章最根本最重要的一句话。
1.上帝在时间的开端创造了空间宇宙万物。
2.上帝存在于时间，空间，宇宙万物产生之前，所以上帝并不受时间空间的束缚。
从这句，我们可以看到上帝神圣的特质和超凡的能力。
Genesis 1:2-25
创世纪1：2-25
神向人讲解他如何创造的世界。
版上很多人列出了一些书系统细致说明创世纪和科学的关系。但据我所知，大多数基督徒并不会花时间做这些事。为什么呢？
我们必须了解创世纪的背景。大家普遍认为摩西是创世纪这本书的作者。摩西生活的年代据估算在1300BC~1500BC。那时候人类的自然科学水平是什么样估计大家也有了解。
创世纪的读者就是那时候的人。
大家可以想想，我们现在召集全世界最优秀的科学家，为当时的人写一篇有关宇宙与地球历史的起源的文章。字数限制为1000字。而且要让古代的人能读懂。会写成啥样?
关键是我们的科学现在还没搞清楚宇宙和人类到底是怎么来的，大爆炸理论，各种生物研究等等都是正在发展中的理论。我们有很多小的结论，但还没能把所有东西连在一起从头到尾解释清楚。
总之，圣经不是科学教材，它的目的是让人了解神。
（有的反基非要把创世纪里的1天解释成我们现在用的24小时，不接受任何其他解释。
我认为是他们自己头脑顽固还要把自己的想法强加于人。）
创世纪1:26-30
Genesis 1:26-30
27神 就 照 着 自 己 的 形 像 造 人 ， 乃 是 照 着 他 的 形 像 造 男 造 女 。28 神 就 赐 福 给 他 们 ， 又 对 他 们 说 ： 要 生 养 众 多 ， 遍 满 地 面
， 治 理 这 地 ， 也 要 管 理 海 里 的 鱼 、 空 中 的 鸟 ， 和 地 上 各 样
行 动 的 活 物 。
29 神 说 ： 看 哪 ， 我 将 遍 地 上 一 切 结 种 子 的 菜 蔬 和 一 切 树 上
所 结 有 核 的 果 子 全 赐 给 你 们 作 食 物 。
27So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the
whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be
yours for food.
我们可以看到上帝按自己的形象造了人，又赐福给他们。上帝对人的爱是毋庸置疑的。上帝又为人类提供了人类生存所需的食物。
创世纪1：31
31 神 看 着 一 切 所 造 的 都 甚 好 。 有 晚 上 ， 有 早 晨 ， 是 第 六 日 。
Genesis 1：31
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
上帝创造了一个美好的世界。
总结一下，上帝是宇宙万物的创造者，有这超凡的能力和神圣的属性。他不受时间空间所束缚。他创造了一个完美的世界。上帝创造了人类，上帝赐福于人，并为人提供人类生存所需。
对基督教很感兴趣的人，最好是找一本学习圣经(如ESV study bible)来读。而且建议
大家也要多用英文圣经，毕竟现在中文的材料有限。
我早说了， LZ是个异端。
explanations. Some of them work well with science.
Your explanation is just one based on words' literal meaning and without
faith of God.
Would anyone understand Taoteching I Ching based on literal meaning?
Do you know how many meansing tao has in Taoteching?
标 题: RE: 请问如何解释神七天创天地与物理学的矛盾
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Aug 16 23:52:05 2013, 美东)
去看看John Lennox 的 God and Stephan Hawking。
I did not read this book. I told you this part is not my interest. But I
know John Lennox is great. Please read if you are interested.
你看人家一句话就说明白genesis了：“天下万物生于有，有生于无。”
你再怎么字面解释都ok
而且神不止一个，造亚当的时候都说按我们的形象造人。后来还有很多地方用的是我们。
圣经写得明明白白，上帝创世之前，水就有了，
而且圣灵一开始就在水上运行。
圣灵其实就是条鱼，离不开水呀离不开水。
啥论的人都有到我这儿来买猪肉的。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_creation_myth
恩基的本性很正直，只把魔法用在助人的用途上，不像伊南娜一類的無賴型神祇總是四處闖禍；他也很善良，對於需要援手的對象，不管是人或神一律一視同仁，連曾經得罪過他的伊南娜求援，他也不吝伸出援手。恩基具備睿智的慈父形象，雖然會懲處製造爭端和屠殺的壞份子，但手段也僅止於避開或是解除對方的武裝而已。好脾氣的恩基，常常以他豐富的幽默感及同情心，安撫暴烈的眾神之神恩尼爾（Enlil）。在《伊南娜與
恩基》（詳見伊南娜）的故事中，恩基故意測試伊南娜的能耐，讓她有機會帶走神聖的寶藏「密」（Me），但遭挫敗之後卻未失風度，反而大方認輸，並且加強了埃利都以及烏魯克之間的聯繫，成了加持伊南娜的神。
还有大洪水
在蘇美神話中，恩基曾幫助人類逃過大洪水的劫難。阿拉哈西斯（Atrahasis）神話中
，恩尼爾覺得人類太吵，於是放出洪水、乾旱和瘟疫來消滅他們。但是，恩基傳授阿拉哈西斯灌溉、貯存穀物以及醫藥的知識，人類因此得以存活下來。恩尼爾相當生氣，決定祕密召幾位神來放一次巨大的洪水完全滅絕人類，但是還是被恩基知道，並且事先安排烏塔那匹茲姆(Utnapishtim)搭船避難，日後便予烏塔那匹茲姆永生的能力，囑其隱
居深山。恩尼爾大怒，控告恩基妨礙他的計畫，恩基則向他解釋，為了必須的平衡，不應該完全滅絕無辜的人類，讓剩下來的人類進行節育即可。但是，相對地，如果人類不信神祇而墮落，就可以任憑眾神屠殺。很顯然地這是諾亞方舟類似故事的最早版本。
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%81%A9%E5%9F%BA
This post is about genesis 1.
It is allowed to have things you are not sure in Bible. Especially in this
chapter. This chapter is so profound.
I would not get to any unsure conclusions either.
But there are black and white things in bible, the creation of world by God is repeated in Bible many times. So I am sure God created the world. This is in fact the main theme of this chapter.
Those who are selectively blind to this main theme need to rethink their
approach of reading bible.
I already put what I am kind of sure in my post.
是不是哈佛的都觉得自己特NB， 圣经想咋解就咋解。
What is your intention?
If you did not explain this to me, I am about to report you to some agency.
Don't be suprised, someone will invite you for a cup of tea someday.
你还是先说说吧，一本圣经到你手上，天不是天了，水不是水了，日不是日了，月不是月了。
不知道哪天你会不会认为神也不是神。你敢不敢先把你这些异端思想report 一下你们
牧师，并且
告诉他们你正在到处宣扬这些害人，看看他们还敢留你不。
btw, 找agent的时候别忘了把神叫你杀人你就杀的话再宣布一次，他们对这个最感兴趣了。
真有事的时候不是去祈祷求神，而是去求钻风，
求老刑，求FBI，你说这种脑子究竟算正常
还是不正常啊?
上帝如果真的在 如果真的在大家面前展示他自己 还会有多少人不信？但就是这个如果 也只是一个如果而已。保持点open mind不是坏事。人家老美从小泡在教堂 数理化生
物一塌糊涂 进化论还不怎么让教 他们信信就罢了。中国人 特别是在这里泡bbs的学了那么多年理工 随便一点常识性的东西 都能让圣经的各种教义变的不可信。宗教的东西 还是就别牵强的想要用科学来解释了。
看了这么久，我觉得吧，版上所谓的基并不一定都是真正意义上的基 而反基的呢 也不一定就都是真正的在反。骂来骂去 一团浆糊。
One thing I want to say is that:
Gos is not a magician who performs miracles before people when we need him.
God is God. God does what He wants to do.
any of them recorded by a carefully and faithfully preserved book like Bible?
time there is no development in Christian theology. Seemingly, they make
Christian a leading religion, in fact, they killed the real religion. But
reformation changed all these. People come back to Bible, and put creeds
lower than bible.
Do you also know that before what you mentioned, early Christians are
persecuted for more than 200 years?
what's you point of Christianity destroy the our cultures ? It is right
thing?
happen again. That's why we all read bible, instead of using creeds alone.
那你想不想知道新教是怎么杀异端， 烧女巫， 搞政教合一的？
我就不明白了， 你刚刚还在“Because Greeks and Romans doesn't believe Gree/
Roman mythology themselves.”，以罗马教皇的暴行结果为骄傲， 转眼就“Roman
Catholic Church made mistakes”。。。这脸变的那个叫快。
James want to depart from Roman Catholic but also know that a complete
freedom of reading and explaining scripture doesn't work well with his
Kingship. It's like a new Church country, though better but still not the
perfect way. That's why there is may flowers and today's United States.
端杀手， 三，四年间仅在日内瓦他就杀了上千人。另一个马丁路德，整个一杀人狂， 特好烧女巫和迫害犹太人。
Which Calvin are you talking about?
In Bible, God love King David. But David slept with his friend's wife and
killed his friend. Does God's chosen people did evil make God evil?
God then punished him by killing his son. So this means that God hate evil
right?
Now you will say again God is evil and kill baby, right?
God is both just (punish David's sin) and evil (kill his baby).
In your eyes, bible is full of contradictions. Because you are not reading, but trying to find contradictions.
at Harvard. If you don't tell me how you did that I will not share my
experience. LOL.
Why do anyone need to follow his word?
Like I said in floor 62. God's chosen people's sin doesn't means God's evil.
We take Martin Luther's good thought, not all his thought.
That's exactly the problem of worshiping people. People errs. We used to
worship Chairman Mao. But he is human and made mistakes. But God's way is
always right.
They were wrong. They used bible in a wrong way.
Like I said in floor 62. God's chosen people's sin doesn't means God's evil.
I will post how to read and use bible properly. Believe me, it is in fact
super difficult, people will be too scared to use this method in the
beginning. But we got to do it anyway.
That's almost a rule that when Christian dominates, it's theology stagnates. That's people's problem. When people get pride, they forget about Bible and make themselves' thoughts and words higher than bible.
人家天主教裤裆里的黄泥， 忘了自己屁股上的屎。
你们新教徒follow他的不少，希特勒就是一个（虽然他名义上是天主教徒）。
talk about God.
When we talk about God, only reliable source is Bible.
Again God's people's sin is already described in Bible, from the first book to the last.
God's persistence is also shown through out of Bible. God want all people
understand what evil is like and hate evil and truly repent and rely on God. God send his only son,
神爱世人，甚至将他的独生子赐给他们，叫一切信他的，不至灭亡，反得永生。
--圣经，约翰福音，3章16节
Jesus is called prince of peace. Now we know that using violence cannot
achieve peace. That's why Jesus told us to love our enemies. All the people was off this track. They are right somewhere. But their human pride
destroyed them. They did not rely on Jesus's words.
Rome Catholic's fault, none of our business.... 徒增笑尔。
标 题: Re: 另外，我也想多谈一些关于基督徒的宽容和爱心
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Apr 10 22:19:32 2013, 美东)
支持。
基督教的根基是圣经，不是没有圣经根据，世人眼中毫无原则的泛泛的爱。如果按世人的观点，圣经启示的神，我们的信仰的对象启不是最没有爱的了？多了不说，大洪水，地狱两件事就齐了。
根据圣经，既然神的公义惩罚和神的大爱毫无矛盾，版主出于爱心，对那些给弟兄姊妹，甚至他本人带来伤害的异端予以限制，也就更是顺理成章了。
当然我们的爱心都不够，交通的方式也可以改进，这是另一方面的问题，需要每一个人都要每天注意的。但是基本上，我觉得这些方面是自己努力提高的地方，而不是指责别人的内容。如果用作自省，会很有益处；如果用来指责别人，则意义确实不大。
所以结论是你的神喜欢恶人，爱作恶事，这就是你这个基督徒眼里的公正
会的老红卫兵
say?
1 Peter 2
18 Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not
only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust
suffering because they are conscious of God.
People used to use this verse to support slavery. Do you think this verse
support slavery?
exist. But the slavery at that time is different from the slavery of black
people in the US. At that time, if one went broke and cannot pay debt, he
need to sold himself as a slave to work for lender. It is not based on race.
God did condemned certain kind of slavery, God brought Israel out of slavery from Egypt. God sent plagues to Egyptians who tried to keep Israel as
slaves.
We need to be very careful when we apply bible verses to our daily lives.
Many verses are not directly application today like in US, there is no
slavery anymore. Bible did not say we need to keep slavery at all times. We always understand bible in a descriptive way instead of in a prescriptive
way. Today, maybe we can understand it as employer and employee relation.
But now, we have all kinds of laws to protect both employer and employee
already. So i don't think this verse is that useful anymore.
Please also see this:http://www.gotquestions.org/bible-slavery.html
这是你的辩解? LoL
要是倒退1000年,任你们信不信.高几百年政教合一焚书坑儒,看你们还有几个反抗.
你到底知不知道奴隸制度是怎麼回事？ 這是把人當財產可以買賣你知道嗎？
你的神覺得這都沒問題？ 你覺得這都沒問題？
42. 因为他们是我的仆人、是我从埃及地领出来的、不可卖为奴仆．
43. 不可严严地辖管他．只要敬畏你的神。
44. 至于你的奴仆、婢女、可以从你四围的国中买。
45. 并且那寄居在你们中间的外人、和他们的家属、在你们地上所生的、你们也可以从其中买人、他们要作你们的产业。
46. 你们要将他们遗留给你们的子孙为产业．要永远从他们中间拣出奴仆．只是你们的弟兄以色列人、你们不可严严的辖管。
我说杨同学偶尔是不是可以直接回答下问题？