Sexual performance of experience is strangled to be extent to which it is made either an object of attention or an object of intention. I have called this first “hyper-reflection” and the second “hyper-intention”. Fear tends to bring about precisely that which one is afraid of.
This sexual maturation is characterized by three developmental stages. At the immature level, only a goal is sought, and the goal is tension reduction irrespective of the way in which it is accomplished. Masturbation may do. According to Freud the mature stage is reached as soon as the sexual instinct centers on the normal sexual intercourse which presupposes an object. As I see it, however, the object is not enough to guarantee a mature sexual life. For as long as an individual uses a partner simply for the purpose of reducing tension, he really “masturbates on the partner”. To the individual who really is mature, the partner is in no way a means to an end. The mature individual’s partnership moves to a human level, and the human level precludes the mere use of others. On the human level, I do not use another human being but I encounter him, which means that I fully recognize his humanness; and if I take another step by fully recognizing, beyond his humanness as a human being, his uniqueness as a person, it is even more than an encounter- what then takes place is love.
As long as one remains at the mere goal level, one’s sexual instinct may be catered to by pornography; and as long as he stays at the mere object level his sexual instinct may be catered to by prostitutes. Thus, promiscuity and pornography are the marks of fixation at, or regression to, immature levels of development.
Today the will to meaning of often frustrated. In logotherapy one speaks of existential frustration. We psychiatrists are confronted more than ever before with patients who are complaining of a feeling of futility which at present plays at least as important a role as did the feeling of inferiority in Alfred Ader’s time. Such people complain about not only of a sense of meaninglessness but also of emptiness, and that is why I have described this condition in terms of the “existential vacuum.”
If asked for a brief explanation, I would say that the existential vacuum derives from the following conditions. Unlike an animal, man is no longer told by drives and instincts what he must do. And in contrast to man in former times, he is no longer told by traditions and values what he should do. Now, knowing neither what he must do not what he should do, he sometimes does not even know what he basically wishes to do. Instead, he wishes to do what other people do - which is conformism - or he does what other people wish him to do - which is totalitarianism.
On the average, however, the fact remains that in America the existential vacuum is more manifest than in Europe. As I see it, this is due to the exposure of the average American student to an indoctrination along the lines of reductionism. (作者对reductionism深恶痛绝) To cite an instance, there is a book in which man is defined as “nothing but a complex biochemical mechanism powered by a combustion system which energized computers with prodigious storage facilities for retaining encoded information. ” Or, man is defined as a “naked ape.”
Among the worldwide effects there is something one might call the mass neurotic triad, and it consists of depression, addiction, and aggression.
Small wonder that people who are caught in the existential vacuum are eager, if meanings cannot be acquired, to provide themselves as least with mere feelings of meaningfulness - such as those that are available in the state of intoxication.
Olds and Milner...self-stimulation experiments. They insert electrodes into the hypothalamuses of rats, and whenever they closed the electric circuit the rats to all appearances experienced either sexual orgasm or the satisfaction of the ingestion of food. When the rats then learned to jump on the lever and by so doing to close the electric circuit themselves, they became addicted to the business and pressed the lever up to 50,000 times a day. What I regard as most remarkable is that these animals then neglected the real sexual partners and the real food that were offered to them. And I think that the “acid heads” who confine themselves to the mere feelings of meaningfulness may bypass the true meanings which are in store, in wait for them, to be fulfilled by them out there in the world rather than within their own psyches.
Unmasking is perfectly legitimate; but I would say that it must stop as soon as one confronts what is genuine, genuinely human, in man. If it does not stop there, the only thing that the “unmasking psychologist” really unmasks is his own “hidden motive” - namely, his unconscious need to debase and depreciate the humanness of man.
At that point hyper-interpretation, as I would call it, begins, and it process to be most dangerous when it comes to self-interpretation. We psychiatrists have met many patients who are suffering from, and cripple by, the obsessive compulsion to analyze themselves, to observe and watch themselves, to reflect upon themselves. The cultural climate that prevails in the United States provides dangerous opportunity for this compulsion to become a collective obsessive neurosis. Just consider a recent study by ... It shows that the value that ranks highest among American college students is self-interpretation. I see in these findings another indication of the existential vacuum. As the boomerang returns to the hunter who has thrown it only when it has missed its target, so man returns to himself, reflects upon himself and becomes overly concerned with self-interpretation only when he has, as it were, missed his mission, having been frustrated in his search for meaning. The Freudians’ experience with patients in whom, owing to the lack of life content, the psychoanalytic treatment has become a substitute comes to mind.
If meanings and values really are “nothing but” defense mechanisms and reaction formations, as the psychodynamically oriented theories have it, is life really worth living? Isn’t it rather understandable if I am submerged in depression and wind up with suicide? As to addiction: If man really is just seeking pleasure and happiness by gratifying his needs in order to get rid of the tensions created by them, why worry? Why not build up perpetual and perfect tranquility by simple taking drugs? And finally, regarding aggression: If I really am the victim of outer and inner circumstances and influences, the product of environment and heredity, and my behavior, decision and action are “nothing but” the result of operant conditioning, conditioned reflexes and learning processes - who is justified in demanding that I improve or expecting that I change? There is no need for apologies; there are plenty of excuses; there are alibis. And as for myself, I am neither free nor responsible. So there is no reason why I should not continue living out the aggressive impulses about which I can do nothing anyway.
From all this it should be clear that we are in dire need of a rehumanization of psychotherapy unless we wish to reinforce, rather than to counteract, the ills and ailments of our age.
Konrad Lorenz was cautious enough to speak of behavior in animals that is analogous to moral behavior in man. Buy contrast, the reductionists do not recognize a qualitative difference between the two types of behavior. They deny that a uniquely human phenomenon exists at all. They insists that there is nothing in man which cannot be found in animals as well. In this connection what comes to mind is the rabbi in the joke, who once was consulted by two parishioners. One man contended that the other’s cat had stolen and eaten up five pounds of butter. The other contended that his cat did not care for butter. “Bring me the cat,” the rabbi ordered. They brought him the cat. “Now bring my scales,” he continued. And they brought him scales. “How many pounds of butter did you say the cat has eaten?” he asked. “Five pounds, Rabbi,” was the answer. Thereupon the rabbi put the cat on the scales and, believe it or not, it weighted exactly five pounds. “Now I have the butter,” the rabbi said, “but where is the cat?” He had started with the a priori assumption that if there are five pounds, it must be five pounds of butter. But is it not the same with the reductionists? They too start with the a priori assumption that if there is anything in man, it must be possible to explain it along the lines of animal behavior. Eventually they discover in man all the conditioned reflexes, conditioning processes, innate releasing mechanisms and whatever else they have been in search of. “Now we have it,” they say, like the rabbi, “but where is - man?”
So conscience is a human phenomenon. However, it can be an all too human phenomenon. It not only leads us to meaning but may also lead us astray. This is part and parcel of the human condition. Conscience may err, and I cannot know absolutely for certain whether my conscience is right and another’s conscience, which tells him something different, is wrong, or whether the reverse is true. Not that there is no truth: there is. And there can be only one truth. But no one can be absolutely sure it is he who has arrived at this truth.
So man can only stick to his conscience, although, until he lies on his deathbed, he never knows whether it is the true meaning his conscience mediates to him. As Gordon W. Allport so beautifully put it, “we can be at one and the same time half-sure and whole-hearted.”
Meanings refer to unique situations - and the equally unique persons confronting them. In contrast to the meanings, which are unique, values are more or less universal in that they are shared by whole segments of a given population. As such, however, they are subjected to changes, and even more, they are affected by the present decay of traditions.
the answer to the question What is the meaning of life? can only be given out of one’s whole being - one’s life is itself the answer to the question of its meaning. In order words, morals have to be not only ontologized but also existentialized.
It is a tenet of logotherapy that the humanness of man is grounded in his sense of responsibility. Man is responsible for fulfilling the meaning of his life. Being human means responding to life situations, replying to the questions they ask. Being human means answering these calls - but who is calling? To whom is man responding? There questions cannot be answered by logotherapy. It is the patient who must answer them. Logotherapy can be defined as education to responsibility.
Being human means being confronted continually with situations, each of which is at once a chance and a challenge, giving us a chance to fulfill ourselves by meeting the challenge to fulfill its meaning. Each situation is a call, first to listen, and then to respond.
However, I would say that at present responsibility must be defined as selectivity. We are living in an affluent society and this is an affluence not only of material goods but of various sorts of stimuli as well. We are bombarded by the mass media. We are bombarded by sexual stimuli. And, last but not least, the information explosion represents a further, new affluence. Heaps of books and journals pile up on our desks. Unless we wish to drown in total (not only sexual) promiscuity, we have to choose between what is important and what is not, what is meaningful and what is not. We have to become selective and discriminating.
I did not give up my conviction of the unconditional meaningfulness of life, because either life has a meaning - and then it must retain this meaning even if it is shortly lived - or life has no meaning - and then just adding ever more years and perpetuating this meaningless job could not be of any meaning either. Even a life that has been meaningless all along, that is, a life that has been wasted, may - even in the last moment - still be bestowed with meaning by the very way in which we tackle this situation. The story that is laid down in Leo Tolstoy’s novel The death of Ivan Ilyich - the tale of a man who is about sixty years of age and suddenly learns that he is to die in a couple of days. But by the insight he gains, not only in this fact but also in the very fact that he has wasted his life, that his life has been virtually meaningless - by this insight he rises above himself, he grows beyond himself and thereby finally becomes capable - retroactively - of flooding his life with infinite meaning.
It is important that this be conveyed to the non-patients suffering from existential vacuum. They should know that despair over the apparent meaninglessness of life constitutes a human achievement rather than a neurosis. After all, no animal cares whether or not its existence has a meaning. This is a manifestation of intellectual sincerity and honesty. In particular, it is a privilege of youth not to take for granted that there is a fixed meaning to life, but boldly to dare to challenge it. However, this courage should be matched by patience. People should be patient enough to wait until, sooner or later, meaning dawns upon them. This is what they should do. Rather than taking their lives - or taking refuge in drugs.
I would like to quote Albert Einsten: “The man who regards his life as meaningless is not merely unhappy but hardly fit for life.” Unless life points to something beyond itself, survival is pointless and meaningless. It is not even possible: (in prison-of-war camps) only those who were oriented toward the future, toward a goal in the future, toward a meaning to fulfill in the future, were likely to survive.
The more comprehensive the meaning, the less comprehensible it is. Infinite meaning is necessarily beyond the comprehension of a finite being. Here is the point at which science gives up and wisdom takes over.
We may define religion as a system of symbols, i.e. symbols for which humans cannot grasp in conceptual terms. It is also legitimate to define the individual languages developed by mankind as “system of symbols”. Comparing religion with language one should also keep in mind that nobody is justified in claiming that the particular language spoke by himself is superior to another one. After all, it is possible in any language to arrive at truth - at the one truth - and it is also possible in any language to err and to lie.
One denomination cannot claim superiority over another. If religion is to survive it will have to become a profoundly personalized religion which allows any human being to speak a language of his or her own when addressing himself or herself to the ultimate being.
I admit that the concept of religion in its widest possible sense as it is here propounded goes far beyond the narrow concepts of God as they are promulgated by some representatives of denominational religion. They often depict God as a being who is primarily concerned with being believed in by the greatest possible number of believers and along the lings of a specific creed, at that. “Just believe,” we are told, “and everything will be okay.” But alas, not only is this order based on a distortion of any sound concept of deity, but even more important, it is doomed to failure: Obviously, there are certain activities that simply cannot be commanded, demanded, or ordered.
God is the partner of our most intimate soliloquies. Whenever you are talking to yourself in utmost sincerity and ultimate solitude - he to whom you are addressing yourself may justifiably be called God. Such a definition circumvents the bifurcation between atheistic and theistic Weltanschauung. The difference between them emerges only later on, when the irreligious person insists that his soliloquies are just that, monologues with himself, and the religious person interprets his as real dialogues with someone other than himself. I think that what here should count first and more than anything else is the “utmost sincerity” and honesty. [此贴子已经被作者于2010/9/30 17:36:45编辑过]
bless. 跟人家好好谈谈吧，希望明天一早去人家还可以通融。 怎么好好谈呢？我能想到的是，先道歉，“昨天发现消息太晚了”，“is there any chance that I could still get the animals the coming tues? could you please help me? I really need them on schedule”。如果他说“知道重要干嘛昨天不在”，我就继续道歉。。
怎么好好谈呢？我能想到的是，先道歉，“昨天发现消息太晚了”，“is there any chance that I could still get the animals the coming tues? could you please help me? I really need them on schedule”。如果他说“知道重要干嘛昨天不在”，我就继续道歉。。 今天你先给人家打个电话，留个言，说对不起，没听到电话，看到有留言的时候人家已经下班了。说明一下这个实验按时开始的重要性，如果不按时开始的危害，尤其是对整个课题的影响。
对了，说个deal。dropbox搞promotion，如果还有edu邮箱的，https://www.dropbox.com/edu
从这个链接走，然后输入你的edu邮箱，验证后，你所有的refer bonus，包括以前的，全部double。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/9/30 12:13:15编辑过]
Sexual performance of experience is strangled to be extent to which it is made either an object of attention or an object of intention. I have called this first “hyper-reflection” and the second “hyper-intention”.
Fear tends to bring about precisely that which one is afraid of.
This sexual maturation is characterized by three developmental stages. At the immature level, only a goal is sought, and the goal is tension reduction irrespective of the way in which it is accomplished. Masturbation may do. According to Freud the mature stage is reached as soon as the sexual instinct centers on the normal sexual intercourse which presupposes an object. As I see it, however, the object is not enough to guarantee a mature sexual life. For as long as an individual uses a partner simply for the purpose of reducing tension, he really “masturbates on the partner”. To the individual who really is mature, the partner is in no way a means to an end. The mature individual’s partnership moves to a human level, and the human level precludes the mere use of others. On the human level, I do not use another human being but I encounter him, which means that I fully recognize his humanness; and if I take another step by fully recognizing, beyond his humanness as a human being, his uniqueness as a person, it is even more than an encounter- what then takes place is love.
As long as one remains at the mere goal level, one’s sexual instinct may be catered to by pornography; and as long as he stays at the mere object level his sexual instinct may be catered to by prostitutes. Thus, promiscuity and pornography are the marks of fixation at, or regression to, immature levels of development.
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/9/30 11:55:24编辑过]
Today the will to meaning of often frustrated. In logotherapy one speaks of existential frustration. We psychiatrists are confronted more than ever before with patients who are complaining of a feeling of futility which at present plays at least as important a role as did the feeling of inferiority in Alfred Ader’s time. Such people complain about not only of a sense of meaninglessness but also of emptiness, and that is why I have described this condition in terms of the “existential vacuum.”
If asked for a brief explanation, I would say that the existential vacuum derives from the following conditions. Unlike an animal, man is no longer told by drives and instincts what he must do. And in contrast to man in former times, he is no longer told by traditions and values what he should do. Now, knowing neither what he must do not what he should do, he sometimes does not even know what he basically wishes to do. Instead, he wishes to do what other people do - which is conformism - or he does what other people wish him to do - which is totalitarianism.
On the average, however, the fact remains that in America the existential vacuum is more manifest than in Europe. As I see it, this is due to the exposure of the average American student to an indoctrination along the lines of reductionism. (作者对reductionism深恶痛绝) To cite an instance, there is a book in which man is defined as “nothing but a complex biochemical mechanism powered by a combustion system which energized computers with prodigious storage facilities for retaining encoded information. ” Or, man is defined as a “naked ape.”
Among the worldwide effects there is something one might call the mass neurotic triad, and it consists of depression, addiction, and aggression.
Small wonder that people who are caught in the existential vacuum are eager, if meanings cannot be acquired, to provide themselves as least with mere feelings of meaningfulness - such as those that are available in the state of intoxication.
Olds and Milner...self-stimulation experiments. They insert electrodes into the hypothalamuses of rats, and whenever they closed the electric circuit the rats to all appearances experienced either sexual orgasm or the satisfaction of the ingestion of food. When the rats then learned to jump on the lever and by so doing to close the electric circuit themselves, they became addicted to the business and pressed the lever up to 50,000 times a day. What I regard as most remarkable is that these animals then neglected the real sexual partners and the real food that were offered to them. And I think that the “acid heads” who confine themselves to the mere feelings of meaningfulness may bypass the true meanings which are in store, in wait for them, to be fulfilled by them out there in the world rather than within their own psyches.
下接7949
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/9/30 14:41:38编辑过]
Unmasking is perfectly legitimate; but I would say that it must stop as soon as one confronts what is genuine, genuinely human, in man. If it does not stop there, the only thing that the “unmasking psychologist” really unmasks is his own “hidden motive” - namely, his unconscious need to debase and depreciate the humanness of man.
At that point hyper-interpretation, as I would call it, begins, and it process to be most dangerous when it comes to self-interpretation. We psychiatrists have met many patients who are suffering from, and cripple by, the obsessive compulsion to analyze themselves, to observe and watch themselves, to reflect upon themselves. The cultural climate that prevails in the United States provides dangerous opportunity for this compulsion to become a collective obsessive neurosis. Just consider a recent study by ... It shows that the value that ranks highest among American college students is self-interpretation. I see in these findings another indication of the existential vacuum. As the boomerang returns to the hunter who has thrown it only when it has missed its target, so man returns to himself, reflects upon himself and becomes overly concerned with self-interpretation only when he has, as it were, missed his mission, having been frustrated in his search for meaning. The Freudians’ experience with patients in whom, owing to the lack of life content, the psychoanalytic treatment has become a substitute comes to mind.
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/9/30 11:58:16编辑过]
庆祝jolin她妈不用再跑cvs到处求胖子费尽心机淘尿布deal。
我把这两页都mark好了，今天晚上仔细读。
对了，说个deal。dropbox搞promotion，如果还有edu邮箱的，在你的dropbox里面找到promotion链接，输入你的edu邮箱，验证后，你所有的refer bonus，包括以前的，全部double。
多谢冬日！但是我在我的dropbox里面怎么找不到promotion的LINK呀？
庆祝jolin扔掉尿布，穿上小内内。
庆祝jolin她妈不用再跑cvs到处求胖子费尽心机淘尿布deal。
祝贺：）
庆祝jolin扔掉尿布，穿上小内内。
庆祝jolin她妈不用再跑cvs到处求胖子费尽心机淘尿布deal。
yeah！
多谢冬日！但是我在我的dropbox里面怎么找不到promotion的LINK呀？
我去看看
https://www.dropbox.com/edu
从这个链接走。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/9/30 12:12:36编辑过]
It makes sense to me。 单就这句话，例如，很多经很难看懂。
我一直认为：大道无言，所以会一说就是错。
但为什么要说呢？我觉得说出来的目的，是指一条道，但走不走，怎么走，走的过程中有什么体验，各人不同。一说就是错，我理解的就是各人的体验不同。
对于这个道，我现在理解的是，条条道路通罗马。
清楚明白地知道自己的目的地，那么走那条路，其实不那么重要。
这个让我想起，人可以用各种不同的语言“说”，而且用不同的耳朵“听”，虽然说的都是一个道理，条条大路都能然你通罗马，但是每条路上风景不同。虽然不一定每条路都要走一遍，但是知道自己走的不是唯一的路，别人从别的路上也可以跟自己到达同一个目的地。
庆祝jolin扔掉尿布，穿上小内内。
庆祝jolin她妈不用再跑cvs到处求胖子费尽心机淘尿布deal。
我去看看
https://www.dropbox.com/edu
从这个链接走。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/9/30 12:12:36编辑过]
thanks
对于这个道，我现在理解的是，条条道路通罗马。
清楚明白地知道自己的目的地，那么走那条路，其实不那么重要。
这个让我想起，人可以用各种不同的语言“说”，而且用不同的耳朵“听”，虽然说的都是一个道理，条条大路都能然你通罗马，但是每条路上风景不同。虽然不一定每条路都要走一遍，但是知道自己走的不是唯一的路，别人从别的路上也可以跟自己到达同一个目的地。
我也经常这样。。。
我现在觉得Netflix的算法真不错，自从我开始打分，推荐给我的好几部片子都让人有意外的惊喜。
Rivers and Tides
http://movie.douban.com/subject/1419362/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0307385/
祝贺：）
淘了三年尿布deal，终于解放了，热泪盈眶啊我啊
yeah！
这回我尿布还囤多了，pull up还有二百片，五号diaper还有五百片。
书老大，不好意思前几天WS了你的提醒，真没想到今天就是九月最后一天了!! 这星期有点忙，可以拖到周末再总结吗？
没有关系，到时候我再补进来好了。
其实书老大的密码：只要做过书老大，大家都知道的。。
于是她的表现奇好，周二第一次穿上小内内去学校，把她给美疯了。昨晚吵着要穿小内裤睡觉，我没同意，人家就抱着米老鼠内裤睡了一晚。
这回我尿布还囤多了，pull up还有二百片，五号diaper还有五百片。
我收了吧。不过你再等一段时间，小孩子可能有反复，他们生活中遇到stress了，很容易反应到这个刚学会的技能上面来的。
jolin盼望穿micky mouse的小内内很久了，我早就买好了米老鼠的小内裤，天天在她眼前晃，不给穿：“jojo，乖哇？听话哇？poo pee要去potty哇？”
于是她的表现奇好，周二第一次穿上小内内去学校，把她给美疯了。昨晚吵着要穿小内裤睡觉，我没同意，人家就抱着米老鼠内裤睡了一晚。
wow,you did a great job as I know about the process.
我收了吧。不过你再等一段时间，小孩子可能有反复，他们生活中遇到stress了，很容易反应到这个刚学会的技能上面来的。
pull up是粉的，男娃不能穿，我把diaper给你。
pull up是粉的，男娃不能穿，我把diaper给你。
好的，回头你算给我，我今天不上来了。短我或者wave留言，我都能收到。
jolin盼望穿micky mouse的小内内很久了，我早就买好了米老鼠的小内裤，天天在她眼前晃，不给穿：“jojo，乖哇？听话哇？poo pee要去potty哇？”
于是她的表现奇好，周二第一次穿上小内内去学校，把她给美疯了。昨晚吵着要穿小内裤睡觉，我没同意，人家就抱着米老鼠内裤睡了一晚。
soooo cute!
http://news.iqilu.com/china/gedi/2010/0909/318341.html
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/9/30 13:17:37编辑过]
中国“中产”调查：生活压力透支半生财富(人民日报)
http://news.iqilu.com/china/gedi/2010/0909/318341.html
中国没有中产，只有特权阶级和被剥削阶级
中国没有中产，只有特权阶级和被剥削阶级
里面几个故事还是很现实的，比MIT海归版强
庆祝jolin扔掉尿布，穿上小内内。
庆祝jolin她妈不用再跑cvs到处求胖子费尽心机淘尿布deal。
庆祝！
我也是。
里面几个故事还是很现实的，比MIT海归版强
不觉得这里面提到的人是中产，都是城市平民罢了
在国内要想过的好，一点要沾一个“官”字，最不济，当个村长都行，比大城市当个疲于奔命的小白领强
不觉得这里面提到的人是中产，都是城市平民罢了
在国内要想过的好，一点要沾一个“官”字，最不济，当个村长都行，比大城市当个疲于奔命的小白领强
你看了那个海归女律师吗？
你看了那个海归女律师吗？
这样的人很多，基本上挣得到一些钱的，都是这个忙法
空空一走，让我突然想起liumao。。。。不要迷恋姐，姐只是个传说
这不是她第一次遁了
这不是她第一次遁了
我很佩服她的定力阿，我就不行。。。
我很佩服她的定力阿，我就不行。。。
不淡定了才遁的啊
你怎么不行？
Who remembers the link of explaining english word, xiaoxin mentioned a couple of days ago?
It lost in my huge bookmarks collection........
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/9/30 14:10:19编辑过]
Hi, I am Dongri.
Who remembers the link of explaining english word, xiaoxin mentioned a couple of days ago?
It lost in my huge bookmarks collection........
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/9/30 14:10:19编辑过]
wiktionary. I got it finally.
If meanings and values really are “nothing but” defense mechanisms and reaction formations, as the psychodynamically oriented theories have it, is life really worth living? Isn’t it rather understandable if I am submerged in depression and wind up with suicide? As to addiction: If man really is just seeking pleasure and happiness by gratifying his needs in order to get rid of the tensions created by them, why worry? Why not build up perpetual and perfect tranquility by simple taking drugs? And finally, regarding aggression: If I really am the victim of outer and inner circumstances and influences, the product of environment and heredity, and my behavior, decision and action are “nothing but” the result of operant conditioning, conditioned reflexes and learning processes - who is justified in demanding that I improve or expecting that I change? There is no need for apologies; there are plenty of excuses; there are alibis. And as for myself, I am neither free nor responsible. So there is no reason why I should not continue living out the aggressive impulses about which I can do nothing anyway.
From all this it should be clear that we are in dire need of a rehumanization of psychotherapy unless we wish to reinforce, rather than to counteract, the ills and ailments of our age.
Konrad Lorenz was cautious enough to speak of behavior in animals that is analogous to moral behavior in man. Buy contrast, the reductionists do not recognize a qualitative difference between the two types of behavior. They deny that a uniquely human phenomenon exists at all. They insists that there is nothing in man which cannot be found in animals as well. In this connection what comes to mind is the rabbi in the joke, who once was consulted by two parishioners. One man contended that the other’s cat had stolen and eaten up five pounds of butter. The other contended that his cat did not care for butter. “Bring me the cat,” the rabbi ordered. They brought him the cat. “Now bring my scales,” he continued. And they brought him scales. “How many pounds of butter did you say the cat has eaten?” he asked. “Five pounds, Rabbi,” was the answer. Thereupon the rabbi put the cat on the scales and, believe it or not, it weighted exactly five pounds. “Now I have the butter,” the rabbi said, “but where is the cat?” He had started with the a priori assumption that if there are five pounds, it must be five pounds of butter. But is it not the same with the reductionists? They too start with the a priori assumption that if there is anything in man, it must be possible to explain it along the lines of animal behavior. Eventually they discover in man all the conditioned reflexes, conditioning processes, innate releasing mechanisms and whatever else they have been in search of. “Now we have it,” they say, like the rabbi, “but where is - man?”
So conscience is a human phenomenon. However, it can be an all too human phenomenon. It not only leads us to meaning but may also lead us astray. This is part and parcel of the human condition. Conscience may err, and I cannot know absolutely for certain whether my conscience is right and another’s conscience, which tells him something different, is wrong, or whether the reverse is true. Not that there is no truth: there is. And there can be only one truth. But no one can be absolutely sure it is he who has arrived at this truth.
So man can only stick to his conscience, although, until he lies on his deathbed, he never knows whether it is the true meaning his conscience mediates to him. As Gordon W. Allport so beautifully put it, “we can be at one and the same time half-sure and whole-hearted.”
Meanings refer to unique situations - and the equally unique persons confronting them. In contrast to the meanings, which are unique, values are more or less universal in that they are shared by whole segments of a given population. As such, however, they are subjected to changes, and even more, they are affected by the present decay of traditions.
the answer to the question What is the meaning of life? can only be given out of one’s whole being - one’s life is itself the answer to the question of its meaning. In order words, morals have to be not only ontologized but also existentialized.
It is a tenet of logotherapy that the humanness of man is grounded in his sense of responsibility. Man is responsible for fulfilling the meaning of his life. Being human means responding to life situations, replying to the questions they ask. Being human means answering these calls - but who is calling? To whom is man responding? There questions cannot be answered by logotherapy. It is the patient who must answer them. Logotherapy can be defined as education to responsibility.
Being human means being confronted continually with situations, each of which is at once a chance and a challenge, giving us a chance to fulfill ourselves by meeting the challenge to fulfill its meaning. Each situation is a call, first to listen, and then to respond.
However, I would say that at present responsibility must be defined as selectivity. We are living in an affluent society and this is an affluence not only of material goods but of various sorts of stimuli as well. We are bombarded by the mass media. We are bombarded by sexual stimuli. And, last but not least, the information explosion represents a further, new affluence. Heaps of books and journals pile up on our desks. Unless we wish to drown in total (not only sexual) promiscuity, we have to choose between what is important and what is not, what is meaningful and what is not. We have to become selective and discriminating.
I did not give up my conviction of the unconditional meaningfulness of life, because either life has a meaning - and then it must retain this meaning even if it is shortly lived - or life has no meaning - and then just adding ever more years and perpetuating this meaningless job could not be of any meaning either. Even a life that has been meaningless all along, that is, a life that has been wasted, may - even in the last moment - still be bestowed with meaning by the very way in which we tackle this situation. The story that is laid down in Leo Tolstoy’s novel The death of Ivan Ilyich - the tale of a man who is about sixty years of age and suddenly learns that he is to die in a couple of days. But by the insight he gains, not only in this fact but also in the very fact that he has wasted his life, that his life has been virtually meaningless - by this insight he rises above himself, he grows beyond himself and thereby finally becomes capable - retroactively - of flooding his life with infinite meaning.
It is important that this be conveyed to the non-patients suffering from existential vacuum. They should know that despair over the apparent meaninglessness of life constitutes a human achievement rather than a neurosis. After all, no animal cares whether or not its existence has a meaning. This is a manifestation of intellectual sincerity and honesty. In particular, it is a privilege of youth not to take for granted that there is a fixed meaning to life, but boldly to dare to challenge it. However, this courage should be matched by patience. People should be patient enough to wait until, sooner or later, meaning dawns upon them. This is what they should do. Rather than taking their lives - or taking refuge in drugs.
I would like to quote Albert Einsten: “The man who regards his life as meaningless is not merely unhappy but hardly fit for life.” Unless life points to something beyond itself, survival is pointless and meaningless. It is not even possible: (in prison-of-war camps) only those who were oriented toward the future, toward a goal in the future, toward a meaning to fulfill in the future, were likely to survive.
The more comprehensive the meaning, the less comprehensible it is. Infinite meaning is necessarily beyond the comprehension of a finite being. Here is the point at which science gives up and wisdom takes over.
下接7987
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/9/30 17:36:05编辑过]
以下是引用xiaowuzhi在9/30/2010 1:48:00 PM的发言：
富家子第大多数都是凭兴趣选专业，他们本来也就对将来能找到赚多少钱的工作无所谓。文科专业找工作不容易，收入起薪也没有理工科高，穷人家的孩子、或者说还有中产阶级家的孩子，当然要衡量一下投入产出的性价比。
俺
们大老板就是yale学汉语的，100%米国白人，家里上下几代也都是100%白人，和中国没半点关系。富家子出身，什么小时候grandpa的大庄园里
面有个湖的那种。大家现在都觉着他当初学中文很有远见，但他念大学的时候可是50年前啊，那时候米国有几个人愿意选汉语做专业？他也没啥远见的，就是有兴
趣，就学了。毕业之后从事的工作和汉语也没半点关系，后来自己开公司，还是和中文没有半点关系。不过他中文真得很好，因为兴趣的原因，到现在也没有丢，他
懂的一些成语，估计这里一些中国人都未必第一次听到就能反应过来。
上次来楼里树洞，多谢大家的安慰，鼓励，和支持。鞠躬的小猴子。。。。 后来和我妈又谈了几次，收效不错。
我们组的director两个星期前提出辞职，结果整个department乱成一锅粥。不论谈到什么话题，几乎最后都会说，唉，D走了以后我们该咋办涅？
没时间来华人灌水八卦，连个解压的地儿都没有。大家都mua一圈。。。。
看了一个很好的authors@google 油管子， 推荐一下。。。很长， 一个小时， 如果没有时间的话， 建议22分钟以后的10分钟看看, 关于decision making的。。 我觉得很有启发的。。。。。。如果有时间， 我觉得可以全部看一下。。。
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMxnxifmsuw
ask yourself a question, in the same situation,when playing blackjack, you are dealt with 2 10s. will you split?...... i don't know. this is hard....
咳咳
http://www.ted.com/talks/sebastian_seung.html
咳咳
新马甲很矫情不？
隔壁楼看来的，很有感触。在这里和大家分享一下
以下是引用xiaowuzhi在9/30/2010 1:48:00 PM的发言：
富家子第大多数都是凭兴趣选专业，他们本来也就对将来能找到赚多少钱的工作无所谓。文科专业找工作不容易，收入起薪也没有理工科高，穷人家的孩子、或者说还有中产阶级家的孩子，当然要衡量一下投入产出的性价比。
俺们大老板就是yale学汉语的，100%米国白人，家里上下几代也都是100%白人，和中国没半点关系。富家子出身，什么小时候grandpa的大庄园里面有个湖的那种。大家现在都觉着他当初学中文很有远见，但他念大学的时候可是50年前啊，那时候米国有几个人愿意选汉语做专业？他也没啥远见的，就是有兴趣，就学了。毕业之后从事的工作和汉语也没半点关系，后来自己开公司，还是和中文没有半点关系。不过他中文真得很好，因为兴趣的原因，到现在也没有丢，他懂的一些成语，估计这里一些中国人都未必第一次听到就能反应过来。
有的是生计所迫，没时间培养兴趣。
也有的人并不知道自己的兴趣是什么。
大家好，爬上来扭扭。。。。
上次来楼里树洞，多谢大家的安慰，鼓励，和支持。鞠躬的小猴子。。。。 后来和我妈又谈了几次，收效不错。
我们组的director两个星期前提出辞职，结果整个department乱成一锅粥。不论谈到什么话题，几乎最后都会说，唉，D走了以后我们该咋办涅？
没时间来华人灌水八卦，连个解压的地儿都没有。大家都mua一圈。。。。
mua
meditation可以解压。脑子一团粥的时候就深呼吸，念mantra, let go, let go, let go...
或者念relax，然后念rest
有的是生计所迫，没时间培养兴趣。
也有的人并不知道自己的兴趣是什么。
如果自己真的喜欢，父母又觉得太虚了，没用，怎么办？
新马甲很矫情不？
一如既往的水仙花...
如果自己真的喜欢，父母又觉得太虚了，没用，怎么办？
理论上讲，知道自己真的喜欢，是很不容易的事。这种情况下我支持一意孤行干自己喜欢的。反正这样活得开心，也饿不死。
新马甲很矫情不？
嗯，有点儿。
你是在求不同生活体验的错吗？
理论上讲，知道自己真的喜欢，是很不容易的事。这种情况下我支持一意孤行干自己喜欢的。反正这样活得开心，也饿不死。
那好，就算只是现在喜欢，以后有可能喜欢有可能不喜欢，父母就可以干预了吗？
嗯，有点儿。
你是在求不同生活体验的错吗？
没有突破啊， 很沮丧。。。这也是为什么我今天看到那个油管子， 很感慨。。。我问我自己， 我拿到两个10， 我会不会split, 前提是已经放下80，000了。。。 我诚实的说， 我不会。。。 所以连个犯错的机会也不会有， 当然在那个计算下， 对的做法是split...所以我看完很精粉。。。 计算上来讲， 我made mistake了， 但是实际情况我心理上是觉得很幸运没有不make mistake, 没有做对的。。。 所以我今天看完很精粉。。。。
那好，就算只是现在喜欢，以后有可能喜欢有可能不喜欢，父母就可以干预了吗？
我不是父母，我觉得父母的话都是参考。孩子大了，干预是不对的。
孩子做了决定就要承担后果。以后不喜欢了回家啃老就要看父母是否乐意了。
摸摸妙。。亮亮我的新马甲。。。 扭扭。。
看了一个很好的authors@google 油管子， 推荐一下。。。很长， 一个小时， 如果没有时间的话， 建议22分钟以后的10分钟看看, 关于decision making的。。 我觉得很有启发的。。。。。。如果有时间， 我觉得可以全部看一下。。。
ask yourself a question, in the same situation,when playing blackjack, you are dealt with 2 10s. will you split?...... i don't know. this is hard....
看不到油管子，不过我会split。。。
原来的id呢？不用了？那么多ww真可惜。。。
我不是父母，我觉得父母的话都是参考。孩子大了，干预是不对的。
孩子做了决定就要承担后果。以后不喜欢了回家啃老就要看父母是否乐意了。
我基本上也是这个看法
一如既往的水仙花...
其实我取这个马甲的时候是无比的真诚的， 那一刻我心里要的就是求错。。。。 你晓得我虽然这句话说上去像笑话， 其实是事实。。。只要你懂我就好了。。。55555.。。。。
看不到油管子，不过我会split。。。
原来的id呢？不用了？那么多ww真可惜。。。
扫瑞， 忘记说前提了。 已经放下80，000快了。。。
是不是某人出来溜马甲了？
跳，跳。 嗯嗯。。。
mua
meditation可以解压。脑子一团粥的时候就深呼吸，念mantra, let go, let go, let go...
或者念relax，然后念rest
summer, mua...
这些日子加班太多，某天晚上回家我还想做做yoga relax一下。后来被lg摇醒了，发现我直接盘腿坐yoga mat上耷拉着脑袋睡着了。。。。
其实我取这个马甲的时候是无比的真诚的， 那一刻我心里要的就是求错。。。。 你晓得我虽然这句话说上去像笑话， 其实是事实。。。只要你懂我就好了。。。55555.。。。。
哈哈
你回来就好
没有突破啊， 很沮丧。。。这也是为什么我今天看到那个油管子， 很感慨。。。我问我自己， 我拿到两个10， 我会不会split, 前提是已经放下80，000了。。。 我诚实的说， 我不会。。。 所以连个犯错的机会也不会有， 当然在那个计算下， 对的做法是split...所以我看完很精粉。。。 计算上来讲， 我made mistake了， 但是实际情况我心理上是觉得很幸运没有不make mistake, 没有做对的。。。 所以我今天看完很精粉。。。。
会失去的太多，一般人就不愿意冒险了，就算计算上来讲更合理。人到底还是not totaly rational。
你这里说的没有能够犯错，是没有能够有失去什么的机会吧？除了钱，你还想失去什么呢？你可以现在就辞职，比你的计划提前了，这也是冒险。
那好，就算只是现在喜欢，以后有可能喜欢有可能不喜欢，父母就可以干预了吗？
只要能够自己承担并为现在的选择负责任就好了。
我基本上也是这个看法
咱们两个的想法都很相似。
summer, mua...
这些日子加班太多，某天晚上回家我还想做做yoga relax一下。后来被lg摇醒了，发现我直接盘腿坐yoga mat上耷拉着脑袋睡着了。。。。
摸摸~~~
据说meditation比睡觉管用很多。
周末补眠吧。
bless!
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/9/30 16:56:21编辑过]
扫瑞， 忘记说前提了。 已经放下80，000快了。。。
我想了一下，还是会。我忘了谁教我的，you always split。。。。
这个就跟炒股一样，都是有risk的。首先，如果我不能承担这个损失就不会上桌，既然玩了，那就索性痛快点，split吧。
这跟你以前跟我说的，投资股票不要害怕见外婆是一个道理么。
咱们两个的想法都很相似。
你比我说的清楚。一般都是你说了什么，我认同，哈哈。
跳，跳。 嗯嗯。。。
hug hug
We may define religion as a system of symbols, i.e. symbols for which humans cannot grasp in conceptual terms. It is also legitimate to define the individual languages developed by mankind as “system of symbols”. Comparing religion with language one should also keep in mind that nobody is justified in claiming that the particular language spoke by himself is superior to another one. After all, it is possible in any language to arrive at truth - at the one truth - and it is also possible in any language to err and to lie.
One denomination cannot claim superiority over another. If religion is to survive it will have to become a profoundly personalized religion which allows any human being to speak a language of his or her own when addressing himself or herself to the ultimate being.
I admit that the concept of religion in its widest possible sense as it is here propounded goes far beyond the narrow concepts of God as they are promulgated by some representatives of denominational religion. They often depict God as a being who is primarily concerned with being believed in by the greatest possible number of believers and along the lings of a specific creed, at that. “Just believe,” we are told, “and everything will be okay.” But alas, not only is this order based on a distortion of any sound concept of deity, but even more important, it is doomed to failure: Obviously, there are certain activities that simply cannot be commanded, demanded, or ordered.
God is the partner of our most intimate soliloquies. Whenever you are talking to yourself in utmost sincerity and ultimate solitude - he to whom you are addressing yourself may justifiably be called God. Such a definition circumvents the bifurcation between atheistic and theistic Weltanschauung. The difference between them emerges only later on, when the irreligious person insists that his soliloquies are just that, monologues with himself, and the religious person interprets his as real dialogues with someone other than himself. I think that what here should count first and more than anything else is the “utmost sincerity” and honesty.
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/9/30 17:36:45编辑过]
关于religion
摸摸，summer辛苦了。
扫瑞， 忘记说前提了。 已经放下80，000快了。。。
你出来溜马甲啦？ 你以前的那个变量呢？
今天没去学校，偏偏order animal的过程出了问题，偏偏我没听到手机响也没查留言，于是等人家下班了我才知道。一直以来我们学校管动物的机构的规定（不知道成文与否）是动物order要在周四之前发出才能在the coming tues拿到动物。我明天早上早去，跟管order动物的人说说，看能不能赶上the coming tues，不然计划就打乱太多了。大家有什么建议或者经验能提高我成功的几率么？
职场问题求教
今天没去学校，偏偏order animal的过程出了问题，偏偏我没听到手机响也没查留言，于是等人家下班了我才知道。一直以来我们学校管动物的机构的规定（不知道成文与否）是动物order要在周四之前发出才能在the coming tues拿到动物。我明天早上早去，跟管order动物的人说说，看能不能赶上the coming tues，不然计划就打乱太多了。大家有什么建议或者经验能提高我成功的几率么？
bless.
跟人家好好谈谈吧，希望明天一早去人家还可以通融。
bless.
跟人家好好谈谈吧，希望明天一早去人家还可以通融。
怎么好好谈呢？我能想到的是，先道歉，“昨天发现消息太晚了”，“is there any chance that I could still get the animals the coming tues? could you please help me? I really need them on schedule”。如果他说“知道重要干嘛昨天不在”，我就继续道歉。。
怎么好好谈呢？我能想到的是，先道歉，“昨天发现消息太晚了”，“is there any chance that I could still get the animals the coming tues? could you please help me? I really need them on schedule”。如果他说“知道重要干嘛昨天不在”，我就继续道歉。。
今天你先给人家打个电话，留个言，说对不起，没听到电话，看到有留言的时候人家已经下班了。说明一下这个实验按时开始的重要性，如果不按时开始的危害，尤其是对整个课题的影响。
明天你一大早就去，最好比人家上班还早，堵着门。
然后呢，先跟人家打招呼笑脸相迎，增进感情。接着跟人家说对不起昨天手机调振动了（我就是随便说了个原因，你自己按实际情况说哈）没听到。继续真诚地说你为什么需要动物按时到。然后再问人家不知道星期四的order送出去没有， 星期五一大早order还来不来得及，可以不可以帮忙。
态度要真诚，但是别急躁，如果人家不帮忙也别生气，尽力而为好了。
今天你先给人家打个电话，留个言，说对不起，没听到电话，看到有留言的时候人家已经下班了。说明一下这个实验按时开始的重要性，如果不按时开始的危害，尤其是对整个课题的影响。
明天你一大早就去，最好比人家上班还早，堵着门。
然后呢，先跟人家打招呼笑脸相迎，增进感情。接着跟人家说对不起昨天手机调振动了（我就是随便说了个原因，你自己按实际情况说哈）没听到。继续真诚地说你为什么需要动物按时到。然后再问人家不知道星期四的order送出去没有， 星期五一大早order还来不来得及，可以不可以帮忙。
态度要真诚，但是别急躁，如果人家不帮忙也别生气，尽力而为好了。
431-440 页 总结 angleflewover 501-510页
总结风雪 581-590页 总结 angleflewover 591-600页 总结 风雪 631-640页 总结 小新 691-700页 总结小新 751-760页 总结 KP 761-770页 总结空空
781-790页 总结冬日
请大家推荐十月读书：书名、简介。
十月读什么书？
一、summer推荐: 看
小新推荐的那本Forty Tales from the
Afterlives怎么样？ （没有电子书下载）
空空投一票、summerhole一票、
red 三票 －－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－ 二、还有《万物简史》 小新投一票
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三、
dshj：转个小说给大家读读：
《蓝惠
心的选择》 作者：范青 不是推理小说.
来源: 笑含 于 10-08-30 18:50:16 [档案] [博客] [旧帖] [转至博客] [给我悄悄话]
全文在这里http://www.jingping.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=72357 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
concord： 四、
我强烈推荐The seven habits of highly
effective people, by Steven Covey.
不过估计楼里很多人都读过这本书了。 我准备读完了再读一遍。 concord一票，kp一票、小新投一票、red一票
四票
大家好，爬上来扭扭。。。。
上次来楼里树洞，多谢大家的安慰，鼓励，和支持。鞠躬的小猴子。。。。 后来和我妈又谈了几次，收效不错。
我们组的director两个星期前提出辞职，结果整个department乱成一锅粥。不论谈到什么话题，几乎最后都会说，唉，D走了以后我们该咋办涅？
没时间来华人灌水八卦，连个解压的地儿都没有。大家都mua一圈。。。。
摸摸
摸摸妙。。亮亮我的新马甲。。。 扭扭。。
看了一个很好的authors@google 油管子， 推荐一下。。。很长， 一个小时， 如果没有时间的话， 建议22分钟以后的10分钟看看, 关于decision making的。。 我觉得很有启发的。。。。。。如果有时间， 我觉得可以全部看一下。。。
ask yourself a question, in the same situation,when playing blackjack, you are dealt with 2 10s. will you split?...... i don't know. this is hard....
red，那个兔斯基的图片你还找得吗？
送给这位新同学
bless
791－800页 总结 by jolin
冬日：
以下是引用summerhole在9/30/2010 11:10:00 AM的发言：
re
或者说，明白了真理，但是能说出来的不是真理。语言文字不够用。
说出来的是不是真理，没有关系。是个人真实的体验就好了，机缘巧和，在特定的时间就值得一读。
summer:
以下是引用冬日阳光灿烂在9/30/2010 11:15:00 AM的发言：
看怎么定义这个＂看懂＂了。
有的道理说的可以很浅显明白，但人生的不同阶段，对一个很简单的道理的理解体验，可能会非
常不同。
嗯，这个我有体会。re
summer: 7905、7908、7909、7910、7911、7949、7950、7951、7952、7953、7954、7955、7987楼 详情The Unconscious God
摘抄(未完)
小新：
以下是引用冬日阳光灿烂在9/30/2010 10:48:00 AM的发言：
It makes sense to me。 单就这句话，例如，很多经很难看懂。
我一直认为：大道无言，所以会一说
就是错。
但为什么要说呢？我觉得说出来的目的，是指一条道，但走不走，怎么走，走的过程中有什么体验，各人不同。一说就是错，我理解的就
是各人的体验不同。
对于这个道，我现在理解的是，条条道路通罗马。
清楚明白地知道自己的目的地，那么走那条路，其实不那么重要。
这个让我想起，人可以用各种不同的语言“说”，而且用不同的耳朵“听”，虽然说的都是一个道理，条条大路都能然你通罗马，但是每条路上风景不同。虽然不一
定每条路都要走一遍，但是知道自己走的不是唯一的路，别人从别的路上也可以跟自己到达同一个目的地。
冬日：是啊是啊，所以我说话老是：“我觉得，我认为，我现在的理解是”，不是非要罗嗦的啊，就这个思维方式没办法。。。。
小新的推荐：
昨天晚上回家就crash了，好累，打开Netflix挑了一部记录片，脑子立刻醒了。
我现在觉得Netflix的算法真不错，自从我开
始打分，推荐给我的好几部片子都让人有意外的惊喜。
Rivers and Tides
http://movie.douban.com/subject/1419362/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0307385/
中国“中产”调查：生活压力透支半生财富(人民日报)
http://news.iqilu.com/china/gedi/2010/0909/318341.html
求错：
看了一个很好的authors@google 油管子， 推荐一下。。。很长， 一个小时， 如果没有时间的话， 建议22分钟以后的10分钟看看,
关于decision making的。。 我觉得很有启发的。。。。。。如果有时间， 我觉得可以全部看一下。。。
ask yourself a question, in the
same situation,when playing blackjack, you are dealt with 2 10s. will
you split?...... i don't know. this is hard....
red， 你可能会喜欢这个。这个人是你们行业的么， 啥背景?他不去做motivational speaker， 是可惜了。。。。。。
http://www.ted.com/talks/sebastian_seung.html
爱兰：
以下是引用summerhole在9/30/2010 4:38:00 PM的发言：
有的是生计所迫，没时间培养兴趣。
也有的人并不知道自己的兴趣是什么。
如果自己真的喜欢，父母又觉得太虚了，没用，怎么办？
阿妙：只要能够自己承担并为现在的选择负责任就好了。
summer：理论上讲，知道自己真的喜欢，是很不容易的事。这种情况下我支持一意孤行干自己喜欢的。反正这样活得开心，也饿不死。
爱兰：
以下是引用summerhole在9/30/2010 4:48:00 PM的发言：
我不是父母，我觉得父母的话都是参考。孩子大了，干预是不对的。
孩子做了决定就要承担后果。以后不喜欢了回家啃老就要看父母是否乐意了。
我基本上也是这个看法
jolin：自己能够负担得起自己的生活，就自己喜欢下去。
如果是靠父母支持的生活，那得考虑父母的意见。
拿人手短，吃人嘴软。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/9/30 20:46:54编辑过]
如果自己真的喜欢，父母又觉得太虚了，没用，怎么办？
自己能够负担得起自己的生活，就自己喜欢下去。
如果是靠父母支持的生活，那得考虑父母的意见。
拿人手短，吃人嘴软。
red，那个兔斯基的图片你还找得吗？
送给这位新同学
没有那么个图，是我自己想象来着
可惜啊~
自己能够负担得起自己的生活，就自己喜欢下去。
如果是靠父母支持的生活，那得考虑父母的意见。
拿人手短，吃人嘴软。
父母的意见当然要考虑，不过我觉得并不是因为父母在经济上支持了。
父母可以选择经济上支持也可以选择不支持，但是拿这个要挟小孩，感觉就是在操作了
父母的意见当然要考虑，不过我觉得并不是因为父母在经济上支持了。
父母可以选择经济上支持也可以选择不支持，但是拿这个要挟小孩，感觉就是在操作了
你的问题是从孩子角度出发问的：如果自己真的喜欢，父母又觉得太虚了，没用，（孩子）怎么办？
我的回答也是从孩子角度出发回的。
如果你的问题是：如果孩子自己真的喜欢，父母又觉得太虚了，没用，父母怎么办？
那我的回答是不同的：父母尽自己所能支持孩子，做不到也就算了。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/10/1 11:37:39编辑过]
你的问题是从孩子角度出发问的：如果自己真的喜欢，父母又觉得太虚了，没用，（孩子）怎么办？
我的回答也是从孩子角度出发回的。
如果你的问题是：如果孩子自己真的喜欢，父母又觉得太虚了，没用，父母怎么办？
那我的回答是不同的：父母尽自己所能支持孩子，做不到也就算了。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/10/1 11:37:39编辑过]
是啊，如果父母真的支持，哪怕做不到，孩子也会明白理解的。所以我觉得不是钱的问题