巴黎奥运会美国游泳队有点青黄不接

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tj9981
楼主 (北美华人网)
以前的巨星慢慢老去,Ledecky, Dresser, 过了巅峰期能够拿金牌的项目越来越少。 新生代没有绝对统治力,发挥不佳,Walsh和Smith都在上个月奥运会选拔赛上打破自己项目的世界纪录,却都拿了银牌,成绩远低于自己的世界纪录,女子游泳被Aussie全面压制,男子游泳是各国群雄争霸,美国也没有明显优势。 下一个菲尔普斯在哪里? 当然作为一个国家,美国总体实力还是强的,一大堆银牌铜牌。
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Cath226
phelps这种属于老天追着喂饭,还很可能有doping加成,咋可能轻易复制。
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tj9981
phelps这种属于老天追着喂饭,还很可能有doping加成,咋可能轻易复制。
Cath226 发表于 2024-07-30 17:40

没有证据,不要信口胡说非鱼吃药,人家在北京奥运会期间的检测也不会比今年巴黎中国游泳运动员少。相反,中国有三名举重金牌获得者在2016年(北京奥运会后8年)的重复检测中查出服药,被撤销金牌。
a
amyHuang_99
NBC 游泳开始之前已经说了,这次美国游泳金牌projected to be 7,Aussie预计9枚金牌。不知道这预估的7枚里是不是已经丢了几枚了。Ledecky估计800,1500比较稳。
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LKJ
今天看游泳比赛,据说400混合泳金牌的法国小哥属于天赋异禀型的,可媲美当年的菲尔普斯。
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tj9981
amyHuang_99 发表于 2024-07-30 17:45
NBC 游泳开始之前已经说了,这次美国游泳金牌projected to be 7,Aussie预计9枚金牌。不知道这预估的7枚里是不是已经丢了几枚了。Ledecky估计800,1500比较稳。

Aussie基本是女子项目,可见其战斗力刚刚的
艾薇兰琪
有起伏很正常,不可能一直处于巅峰的。
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XDKS2023
现在是女的游不过澳大利亚,男的游不过欧洲的。搞了一堆的铜牌和银牌。
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tj9981
LKJ 发表于 2024-07-30 17:46
今天看游泳比赛,据说400混合泳金牌的法国小哥属于天赋异禀型的,可媲美当年的菲尔普斯。

法国的马尚从2021年夏天来到美国,教练是菲尔普斯的教练,成绩在这几年突飞猛进啊,叹为观止!
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tj9981
XDKS2023 发表于 2024-07-30 17:48
现在是女的游不过澳大利亚,男的游不过欧洲的。搞了一堆的铜牌和银牌。

对的,这个是总体印象
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meftw
美國游泳其實上屆開始就顯頹勢了,這個結果意料之內。美國這次奧運總金牌數能上28就燒高香了,因為現在田徑也不行了。其實體育水平和國力密切相關,不意外
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projecthailmary
因为可以反复抽查其他国家,所以不需要好好培养运动员了
a
amyHuang_99
XDKS2023 发表于 2024-07-30 17:48
现在是女的游不过澳大利亚,男的游不过欧洲的。搞了一堆的铜牌和银牌。

加拿大又出了个天才少女,17岁的Summer Mcintosh
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tj9981
澳大利亚女子游泳运动员有一个特点,就是后半程加速非常厉害
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life99f
我看这届游泳中美两国都挺憋屈的,爽的都是别的国家。
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tj9981
美國游泳其實上屆開始就顯頹勢了,這個結果意料之內。美國這次奧運總金牌數能上28就燒高香了,因為現在田徑也不行了。其實體育水平和國力密切相關,不意外
meftw 发表于 2024-07-30 17:50

不懂就不要发声!!田径美国挺好的啊,跑步项目现在势头正猛呢,100米,200米,100米栏,400栏,接力,今年看起来牙买加这个老对手不行了
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crystalhuang
我今天才意识到奥运会开始好几天了。刚刚看了一下,美国奖牌数遥遥领先,金牌数有点……不过金银铜之间水平真的差那么多吗?
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mfc
tj9981 发表于 2024-07-30 17:44
没有证据,不要信口胡说非鱼吃药,人家在北京奥运会期间的检测也不会比今年巴黎中国游泳运动员少。相反,中国有三名举重金牌获得者在2016年(北京奥运会后8年)的重复检测中查出服药,被撤销金牌。

没用的。 有些装睡的人叫不醒。 他们会说药“太先进 检不出来”,“一看那样就是药罐子”,“美国人 就是走走过场”,“美国人不都是哮喘么” 等等乱说一通。 如果这些人一味的保着自己的游泳队宝宝,不正视这个问题,泳泳队就越来越差,浪费了多少好苗子。
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tj9981
因为可以反复抽查其他国家,所以不需要好好培养运动员了
projecthailmary 发表于 2024-07-30 17:50

这个扯远了,中国的情况是WADA造成的,2021年23名中国游泳运动员兴奋剂阳性,被WADA暗箱操作压住不报,直到今年被爆出,其实只要当时WADA透明公开处理,就不会有今天的尴尬局面
还有,据说去年还有两名中国运动员兴奋剂阳性,包括汤姆涵,接力队员。
简中网上没有证据无端污蔑美国运动员吃药的人,清楚自己的半斤八两就好。
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longbows
meftw 发表于 2024-07-30 17:50
美國游泳其實上屆開始就顯頹勢了,這個結果意料之內。美國這次奧運總金牌數能上28就燒高香了,因為現在田徑也不行了。其實體育水平和國力密切相關,不意外

这次美国田径金牌应该比游泳多
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tj9981
longbows 发表于 2024-07-30 18:00
这次美国田径金牌应该比游泳多

TA啥都不知道,看见美国就黑。
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brookeyang
tj9981 发表于 2024-07-30 17:57
这个扯远了,中国的情况是WADA造成的,2021年23名中国游泳运动员兴奋剂阳性,被WADA暗箱操作压住不报,直到今年被爆出,其实只要当时WADA透明公开处理,就不会有今天的尴尬局面
还有,据说去年还有两名中国运动员兴奋剂阳性,包括汤姆涵,接力队员。
简中网上没有证据无端污蔑美国运动员吃药的人,清楚自己的半斤八两就好。

WADA这个世界组织为什么会为中国队暗箱操作?
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Cyabce
tj9981 发表于 2024-07-30 17:44
没有证据,不要信口胡说非鱼吃药,人家在北京奥运会期间的检测也不会比今年巴黎中国游泳运动员少。相反,中国有三名举重金牌获得者在2016年(北京奥运会后8年)的重复检测中查出服药,被撤销金牌。

他那么大舌头,就是副作用之一
a
amyHuang_99
brookeyang 发表于 2024-07-30 18:11
WADA这个世界组织为什么会为中国队暗箱操作?

当时covid lock down, WADA没有派人去中国调查,就直接采纳了中国的解释。
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tj9981
今天(7月30日)纽约时报的文章:2022年有两名中国顶尖游泳运动员兴奋剂阳性,说是吃了受污染的汉堡包

China, Citing Tainted Burgers, Cleared Swimmers in a New Doping Dispute Two Chinese athletes, one of whom was named to the Olympic team in Paris, tested positive in 2022 for a banned steroid. China blamed contaminated food, as it had after previous positive tests. By Tariq Panja and Michael S. Schmidt Tariq Panja, who reported from Paris, and Michael S. Schmidt, who reported from New York, have both reported extensively about doping in sports.
July 30, 2024 Updated 7:43 a.m. ET Two elite Chinese swimmers, including one named to her country’s team in the Paris Olympics, tested positive in 2022 for a banned drug but were secretly cleared of doping late last year by Chinese authorities, according to two people with direct knowledge of the matter.
After a lengthy investigation into the previously undisclosed incident, the Chinese authorities were unable to determine exactly how the swimmers ingested the drug, a powerful anabolic steroid, but concluded that they had most likely done so unwittingly when they ate hamburgers at a restaurant in Beijing.
The Chinese emphasized in their explanation to global antidoping regulators that only trace amounts of the steroid had been detected and said that those levels were consistent with contamination, not doping.
The decision to clear the swimmers was at least the third time in recent years that China has blamed contaminated food for positive tests by top swimmers, an explanation that has drawn skepticism from many antidoping experts. Critics see the incident as the latest in a pattern of China’s looking the other way when confronted with positive tests in its swimming program, and as a failure by global antidoping agencies to ensure a level playing field for elite athletes.
Investigators and at least one expert for the World Anti-Doping Agency, known as WADA, were not convinced of the contamination explanation in the most recent case, one of the people with knowledge of the matter said. But the agency — which is supposed to serve as a backstop when a country’s own antidoping authorities fail to properly police its athletes — chose not to appeal China’s decision not to impose bans on the swimmers.
Another antidoping agency, the International Testing Agency, which was created in the wake of the Russian doping scandal that rocked Olympic sports nearly a decade ago, also reviewed the case. At least one I.T.A. official believed that swimming’s global governing body should appeal the Chinese decision to clear the athletes, the people with knowledge of the case said. But the swimming organization, known as World Aquatics, did not do so.
The two people with direct knowledge of the positive tests spoke on the condition of anonymity because details about the tests are supposed to remain secret. They said they decided to disclose the information because they believe that the tests were covered up and that the world should know about them at a time when global antidoping efforts are coming under intensified scrutiny.
One of the swimmers, Tang Muhan, was a member of a freestyle relay team that won gold and set a world record at the last Summer Olympics, just edging the U.S. and Australia. She has been named by state media as a member of this year’s Olympic team and is a possible member of the Chinese 4x200 meter relay team, which on Thursday will try to win a second straight gold medal in the event.
In response to questions from The New York Times, China’s antidoping authority, known as Chinada, did not address the newly disclosed case. However, Chinada said that it “has always maintained a scientific, rigorous and objective attitude, adhered to a firm stance of ‘zero tolerance’ for doping, and has always carried out its antidoping work in strict accordance” with global rules.
The World Anti-Doping Agency did not dispute the facts of the case when asked for comment by The Times. The agency said it had “reviewed the full case file with considerable skepticism and all due diligence. In the end, there was no evidence to challenge the contamination scenario presented by the athletes and Chinada.”
In a second statement, on Tuesday morning, it said, “WADA is generally concerned about the number of cases that have been closed without sanction when it is not possible to challenge the contamination theory.”
The International Testing Agency said that its role with World Aquatics did not extend to challenging conclusions by national antidoping agencies and that it “did not advise World Aquatics to appeal these decisions” by the Chinese antidoping agency.
World Aquatics said it “would not be appropriate to comment” on the case in detail, but added that “it never received any recommendation from the I.T.A. to appeal the case.”
The latest incident is likely to fuel further debate over whether the Chinese authorities and their global counterparts are failing to adequately address violations. At the same time, the incident also could lead to calls for flexibility in how the rules are enforced to account for situations in which testing — ever improving with advancing technology — is picking up banned substances that are being ingested accidentally. Chinese swimmers competing in Paris have vehemently denied doping, and WADA noted in its statement on Tuesday that there had been several cases closed as so-called no-fault violations “with sometimes unusual methods of contamination.”
In particular, it said, “there have been several cases in the United States in the past few months where highly intricate contamination scenarios were accepted.”
The disclosure of these positive tests comes three months after The Times reported that 23 Chinese swimmers tested positive for a banned drug before the Tokyo Olympics in 2021. In that case, China also blamed food contamination and cited the low levels of the drug detected in the swimmers.

Top Chinese Swimmers Tested Positive for Banned Drug, Then Won Olympic Gold The case, involving multiple swimmers who seven months later won medals at the 2021 Games, prompted accusations of a cover-up and concerns over why antidoping regulators chose not to intervene. April 20, 2024 The World Anti-Doping Agency also declined to act in that case, even though two of the agency’s top scientists said they had difficulty believing China’s claim that the swimmers had been unwittingly contaminated. The decision to clear those swimmers left them free to compete at the Tokyo Games. At that meet, Chinese swimmers who tested positive months earlier won medals in five events, including three golds. Eleven of those swimmers are again on the Chinese team in Paris.
The fallout from the 23 positive tests has continued to hang over the world of competitive swimming and has led athletes from the U.S. and other countries to voice doubts about whether their sport is clean.
Under the code that governs Olympic sports, athletes are responsible for what is in their bodies. For many drugs, athletes are considered to have tested positive — and face up to four-year bans — even if they have small traces of the substance in their systems. Athletes can escape punishment only if they can clear the high bar of showing exactly how they ingested the drug unwittingly through circumstances outside their control, like tainted food. China has repeatedly invoked that explanation despite being unable to prove the source of any contamination.
Use of the drug detected in the 2022 tests — metandienone, an anabolic steroid — carries the harshest penalties, including a four-year ban. The drug is often referred to as Dianabol or D-Bol and is popular among swimmers and sprinters seeking an edge because of how it helps build lean muscle.
There is a history of some positive tests for banned drugs being linked back to food contamination, usually through the use of steroids and similar substances given to beef cattle to bulk them up. But antidoping authorities and experts said that they could not think of another case where a positive test for metandienone was confirmed to have come from food contamination.
Antidoping authorities do not need to prove that banned substances are used intentionally to impose sanctions. Last year, a Chinese distance runner was suspended from competition after a positive result for metandienone, despite having claimed that she had ingested the substance unwittingly when she accidentally drank from a training partner’s water bottle.
As the Paris Games opened on Friday, the International Testing Agency suspended a member of Iraq’s Olympic judo team from the competition after he tested positive for metandienone and another anabolic steroid.
The Justice Department and F.B.I. are conducting a criminal investigation into how the results from the 23 positive tests before the Tokyo Olympics were handled, a fact that has deeply unnerved International Olympic Committee and WADA officials.
Last week, the I.O.C. imposed last-minute conditions on Utah and the U.S. Olympic Committee, effectively forcing them to sign an amended contract to award Salt Lake City the 2034 Winter Olympics. The amendments allow the I.O.C. to move the 2034 Games to another city, if the U.S. is seen by the I.O.C. as undermining the global system built around WADA.
The two swimmers in the latest case, Ms. Tang and He Junyi, were training in 2022 at a national team facility in Beijing. The Chinese told WADA that the two of them went out together for a day in early October, stopping at a restaurant for Coke, hamburgers and fries. Days later, they were subjected to routine drug testing, which came back positive when the results were reported the following month.
Ms. Tang, 20, had not previously been publicly tied to a positive test. Two other members of the Chinese relay team that won gold in the last Olympics were among the 23 swimmers who had tested positive for a banned substance months before the Tokyo Games but were never sanctioned.
Mr. He is not a member of this year’s Olympic team. But his positive test stood out for another reason: He was also among the 23 swimmers who tested positive in 2021 for a banned substance — a prescription heart medication, trimetazidine, known as TMZ, that can increase stamina and endurance and hasten recovery times.
This would mean that in the span of less than two years Mr. He had twice accidentally consumed food tainted with powerful performance-enhancing drugs.
After the positive tests in 2022, Chinese authorities initially issued provisional suspensions against the two swimmers as the WADA code requires, steps not taken in the earlier case of the 23 swimmers who had tested positive. But China does not ever appear to have publicly disclosed its finding of food contamination in either case, as required under WADA rules.
Ms. Tang contested the action, setting off a hearing process. But the Chinese authorities paused that process and began a wide-ranging investigation that brought in the state’s security services.
The investigation focused on the possibility that the swimmers had eaten hamburgers made with beef from cattle that had been fed anabolic steroids. The inquiry included testing meat samples across the country, tracking beef imports to China from Australia and even conducting studies in which individuals were given contaminated meat and then tested to see what level of the banned substance was detected.
Ultimately, the investigation was unable to pinpoint the source of any potentially tainted meat. But last December, the Chinese decided that the swimmers would be cleared of wrongdoing.
Still, while it took place, the swimmers were barred from races. According to data on the World Aquatics website, Mr. He has not competed at major national or international meets since the positive tests were returned to Chinese authorities in November 2022. Ms. Tang appeared to have been absent from competition for about a year, before resurfacing last December at the Chinese nationals and then being named to the Olympic team.
On Tuesday, WADA confirmed that their absences were because they had been suspended.
Matthew Cullen and Olivia Wang contributed reporting.
Tariq Panja is a global sports correspondent, focusing on stories where money, geopolitics and crime intersect with the sports world. More about Tariq Panja
Michael S. Schmidt is an investigative reporter for The Times covering Washington. His work focuses on tracking and explaining high-profile federal investigations. More about Michael S. Schmidt
t
tj9981
今天的USA today,和路透社都有专门文章讲这个最新的历史个案
t
tj9981
话说兴奋剂案件最多的是田径和举重,不是游泳。

天天啊
tj9981 发表于 2024-07-30 17:49
法国的马尚从2021年夏天来到美国,教练是菲尔普斯的教练,成绩在这几年突飞猛进啊,叹为观止!

说实话这小哥的父母都是游泳运动员 教练也不是随便什么人都能带出来的
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tj9981
天天啊 发表于 2024-07-30 18:30
说实话这小哥的父母都是游泳运动员 教练也不是随便什么人都能带出来的

什么人都可以培养出来的话,轮不到法国佬拿这些金牌的
m
meftw
tj9981 发表于 2024-07-30 18:02
TA啥都不知道,看见美国就黑。

你才不懂,过几天再来看看这个贴
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pink_rabbit
Ledecky 感觉还能夺冠啊
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tj9981
pink_rabbit 发表于 2024-07-30 18:43
Ledecky 感觉还能夺冠啊

希望她能够拿1500 和800
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tj9981
你才不懂,过几天再来看看这个贴
meftw 发表于 2024-07-30 18:41

呵呵,你关注田径吗?Yes or No?
美国短跑现在是猛将云集啊
混凝土举人
回复 11楼 meftw 的帖子
按国力来算,美国应该优势更大了啊,欧洲不更颓势,中国也大幅减缓
m
meftw
tj9981 发表于 2024-07-30 18:47
呵呵,你关注田径吗?Yes or No?
美国短跑现在是猛将云集啊

我曾经专业练短跑的,你说呢?不过我只关注径赛,田赛基本不看。美国田径我预计大概10-13金,比上届多但只是回归正常水平而已。
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tj9981
meftw 发表于 2024-07-30 19:16
我曾经专业练短跑的,你说呢?不过我只关注径赛,田赛基本不看。美国田径我预计大概10-13金,比上届多但只是回归正常水平而已。

你把你放的吃回去啦?? “美國游泳其實上屆開始就顯頹勢了,這個結果意料之內。美國這次奧運總金牌數能上28就燒高香了,因為現在田徑也不行了。其實體育水平和國力密切相關,不意外”
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sweetwater
美国还不强啊,好几个拿金牌的澳大利亚加拿大法国的运动员都有在美国训练的。教练和club的集体感大于国家的荣誉感。
周游四海
混凝土举人 发表于 2024-07-30 19:00
回复 11楼 meftw 的帖子
按国力来算,美国应该优势更大了啊,欧洲不更颓势,中国也大幅减缓

真的是,奥运会开口闭口就是国力。本来就是运动会。大家看看开心就好,世界上又不是只有美国和中国,金牌又不是中国美国来分的 人东道主在欧洲,欧洲多拿点怎么了。 日本韩国人家也优势项目又拼,多拿点也不错 南美洲和非洲其实运动天分很高,训练下多拿点金牌不也挺好。
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flyinthewind2012
混凝土举人 发表于 2024-07-30 19:00
回复 11楼 meftw 的帖子
按国力来算,美国应该优势更大了啊,欧洲不更颓势,中国也大幅减缓

因为美国大气啊,那些拿金牌的其他国家的游泳运动员都是在美国训练的。百花齐放才更好玩一些。
tj9981 发表于 2024-07-30 17:44
没有证据,不要信口胡说非鱼吃药,人家在北京奥运会期间的检测也不会比今年巴黎中国游泳运动员少。相反,中国有三名举重金牌获得者在2016年(北京奥运会后8年)的重复检测中查出服药,被撤销金牌。

你们这些人好奇怪,一有人质疑美国就要拉中国出来说,真是心系母国?
周游四海
flyinthewind2012 发表于 2024-07-30 20:38
因为美国大气啊,那些拿金牌的其他国家的游泳运动员都是在美国训练的。百花齐放才更好玩一些。

是啊,我们大学之前发了newsletter要好几个校友和学生去奥运会,开始我还以为都是美国队呢,有的游泳跳水高尔夫啥的都是别的国家队,虽然不是金牌选手,可能就比个预赛,但在美国训练条件也比自己国家强很多了。在美国就是校队的。
l
llyylei
只看金牌数就得出这样的结论有点偏颇,游泳美国拿了好几个银铜,决赛都有进,如果不是整体实力摆在那里的话。认真看了所有比赛,游泳拿了奖牌的看成绩论实力其实都差不多,中国也有拿金牌实力却没拿到的,这种级别的比赛讲究天时地利人和。像菲尔普斯那种天才选手包揽好多项目有绝对优势的还真没有,他只是个例,不代表美国整体实力。
j
jeso1
美国还不强啊,好几个拿金牌的澳大利亚加拿大法国的运动员都有在美国训练的。教练和club的集体感大于国家的荣誉感。
sweetwater 发表于 2024-07-30 19:30

赞,世界第一生化医药不是吹的。
t
tj9981
悬 发表于 2024-07-30 20:58
你们这些人好奇怪,一有人质疑美国就要拉中国出来说,真是心系母国?

质疑个屁啊,飞鱼服药有任何证据吗?没有证据我都可以质疑任何人昨天犯罪了,这些个不叫质疑,叫污蔑。
这两年游泳界兴奋剂阳性证据是有的,就是2021年中国的23人阳性,和2022年2人阳性,其中有一人是两次阳性都在列,有些人选择相信是食物污染,但是也有很多人不相信,WADA处理这两件事情的程序缺乏透明和必要调查程序。这些可以质疑,大家要弄清楚到底怎么回事,因为有可疑证据在那边。
就事论事,实事求是而已。