弱弱地说一下，起诉书里面这些语言都是penal code的原话，并不是特殊描述被告， 比如4.421a 原话就是1) The crime involved great violence, great bodily harm, threat of great bodily harm, or other acts disclosing a high degree of cruelty, viciousness, or callousness。起诉书只需要提出cause of action，一般就是照抄法条原文，说检方提出被告符合这些犯罪的定义。起诉书一般是按最大的罪定，然后法官在庭审过程中慢慢adjust，给jury instruction最后应该用什么罪。说得难听点DA其实遇到这种high profile谋杀是很兴奋的，巴不得定重罪死罪，最开始DA提出的罪名不一定100%会被采用。比如被告现在是在医院? 听上去他应该没有受什么大伤，最可能是有自残自杀倾向羁押在psychiatric ward。那有一个可能就是他的律师会为他争取从murder减到man slaughter，加州刑法我也忘记了，但是大致理论都差不多的，murder是有预谋的，MS就是一时气昏了头杀人那个意思，所谓的LAP=legally adequately provoked.
弱弱地说一下，起诉书里面这些语言都是penal code的原话，并不是特殊描述被告， 比如4.421a 原话就是1) The crime involved great violence, great bodily harm, threat of great bodily harm, or other acts disclosing a high degree of cruelty, viciousness, or callousness。起诉书只需要提出cause of action，一般就是照抄法条原文，说检方提出被告符合这些犯罪的定义。起诉书一般是按最大的罪定，然后法官在庭审过程中慢慢adjust，给jury instruction最后应该用什么罪。说得难听点DA其实遇到这种high profile谋杀是很兴奋的，巴不得定重罪死罪，最开始DA提出的罪名不一定100%会被采用。比如被告现在是在医院? 听上去他应该没有受什么大伤，最可能是有自残自杀倾向羁押在psychiatric ward。那有一个可能就是他的律师会为他争取从murder减到man slaughter，加州刑法我也忘记了，但是大致理论都差不多的，murder是有预谋的，MS就是一时气昏了头杀人那个意思，所谓的LAP=legally adequately provoked. MegMegMeg 发表于 2024-01-25 16:24
弱弱地说一下，起诉书里面这些语言都是penal code的原话，并不是特殊描述被告， 比如4.421a 原话就是1) The crime involved great violence, great bodily harm, threat of great bodily harm, or other acts disclosing a high degree of cruelty, viciousness, or callousness。起诉书只需要提出cause of action，一般就是照抄法条原文，说检方提出被告符合这些犯罪的定义。起诉书一般是按最大的罪定，然后法官在庭审过程中慢慢adjust，给jury instruction最后应该用什么罪。说得难听点DA其实遇到这种high profile谋杀是很兴奋的，巴不得定重罪死罪，最开始DA提出的罪名不一定100%会被采用。比如被告现在是在医院? 听上去他应该没有受什么大伤，最可能是有自残自杀倾向羁押在psychiatric ward。那有一个可能就是他的律师会为他争取从murder减到man slaughter，加州刑法我也忘记了，但是大致理论都差不多的，murder是有预谋的，MS就是一时气昏了头杀人那个意思，所谓的LAP=legally adequately provoked. MegMegMeg 发表于 2024-01-25 16:24
这个complaint看起来是警方/公诉方一头雾水不确定what went down的节奏。通常来说还不得列个十几条。 RedCrayon 发表于 2024-01-25 16:17
The crime involved great violence, great bodily harm, threat of great bodily harm, or other acts disclosing a high degree of cruelty, viciousness or callousness You were armed with or used a weapon during the commission of the crime The victim was particularly vulnerable You induced others to participate in the commission of the crime or occupied a position of leadership or dominance of other participants in the commission You induced a minor to commit or assist in the commission of the crime You threatened witnesses, unlawfully prevented or dissuaded witnesses from testifying, suborned perjury, or in any other way illegally interfered with the judicial process You were convicted of other crimes for which consecutive sentences could have been imposed, but for which concurrent sentences are being imposed The manner in which the crime was carried out indicates planning, sophistication or professionalism The crime involved an attempted or actual taking or damage of great monetary value The crime involved a large quantity of contraband You took advantage of a position of trust or confidence to commit the offense, and The crime constitutes a hate crime under California Penal Code Section 422.55 and no hate crime sentence enhancements (California Penal Code Section 422.75) are imposed, and the crime is not subject to sentencing under California Penal Code Section 1170.8 加州PC1170（b) 12条款都列上了，我看了就这三条符合。尽管控告预谋杀人，但是第八条（红色的）仍不符合，没证据有计划，就是大家讨论的凶手没准备凶器和逃跑，除非有新证据出现。
update：disclaimer 以下不构成attorney-client relationship 只是转发热心网友对本案的评论： “Ya Mr. Chen’s life is over. He is crazy cuz no matter how upset your spouse makes you, you don’t resort to murder. Correct? Something made him snap. It could be a mental health issue but temporary insanity is almost impossible to prove. The DA will hold firm this case is not complicated. Don’t worry. He may kill himself in prison many do.”
预谋又不是说要策划个几天才算预谋的 wiki: this does not mean that the accused made a plan far in advance, but it could be in the moment of the crime. If that person did the action knowing it would hurt or kill the other person, there was express malice involved, which is a form of malice aforethought.
预谋又不是说要策划个几天才算预谋的 wiki: this does not mean that the accused made a plan far in advance, but it could be in the moment of the crime. If that person did the action knowing it would hurt or kill the other person, there was express malice involved, which is a form of malice aforethought.
顺便贴一下加州量刑mitigating factors 条款，看看陈会利用哪些来辩护。我猜了5个，不是我的看法，只是根据现在网上这几天兴起舆论的风向推测的。 You were a passive participant or played a minor role in the crime The victim was an initiator of, willing participant in, or aggressor or provoker of the incident The crime was committed because of an unusual circumstance, such as great provocation, that is unlikely to recur You participated in the crime under circumstances of coercion or duress, or your criminal conduct was partially excusable for some other reason not amounting to a defense You, with no apparent predisposition to do so, were induced by others to participate in the crime You exercised caution to avoid harm to persons or damage to property, the amounts of money or property taken were deliberately small, or no harm was done or threatened against the victim You believed that you had a claim or right to the property taken, or for other reasons mistakenly believed that your conduct was legal You were motivated by a desire to provide necessities for your family or self, and You suffered from repeated or continuous physical, sexual, or psychological abuse inflicted by the victim of the crime, and the victim of the crime, who inflicted the abuse, was your spouse, intimate cohabitant, or parent of your child, and the abuse does not amount to a defense. + You have no prior record or have an insignificant record of criminal conduct, considering the recency and frequency of prior crimes You were suffering from a mental or physical condition that significantly reduced culpability for the crime You voluntarily acknowledged wrongdoing before arrest or at an early stage of the criminal process You are ineligible for probation and but for that ineligibility would have been granted probation You made restitution to the victim, and Your prior performance on probation or parole was satisfactory
Overcharge这个很tricky，不一定是最好的方式，可能会backfire。再说了， “the overcharge is most often practiced by prosecutors to coerce a guilty plea.” 这里显然没什么用 easy case too obvious
冒昧说下，我觉得你在乱套乱绕，heat of passion in practice适用范围很窄，他这种怎么也不能算是。退一万步，算他第一拳下去的时侯是被provoke了，再往后，一拳又一拳地致死，不及时报警，就是有意要对方死。另外你有意无意提到精神病，呵呵。 tuer 发表于 2024-01-25 17:47
“Chen’s right hand was extremely swollen and purple. He had blood on his clothing, his legs, arms, and hands. He also had superficial scratches on his left forearm.” 这个男人太狠了，看起来他是用左手控制住被害人，右手猛烈击打的。家庭暴力真的太可怕了！希望法律公正审判，犯案者牢底坐穿！！！
“Chen’s right hand was extremely swollen and purple. He had blood on his clothing, his legs, arms, and hands. He also had superficial scratches on his left forearm.” 这个男人太狠了，看起来他是用左手控制住被害人，右手猛烈击打的。家庭暴力真的太可怕了！希望法律公正审判，犯案者牢底坐穿！！！ 薄荷糖 发表于 2024-01-25 19:58
“Chen’s right hand was extremely swollen and purple. He had blood on his clothing, his legs, arms, and hands. He also had superficial scratches on his left forearm.” 这个男人太狠了，看起来他是用左手控制住被害人，右手猛烈击打的。家庭暴力真的太可怕了！希望法律公正审判，犯案者牢底坐穿！！！ 薄荷糖 发表于 2024-01-25 19:58
“Chen’s right hand was extremely swollen and purple. He had blood on his clothing, his legs, arms, and hands. He also had superficial scratches on his left forearm.” 这个男人太狠了，看起来他是用左手控制住被害人，右手猛烈击打的。家庭暴力真的太可怕了！希望法律公正审判，犯案者牢底坐穿！！！ 薄荷糖 发表于 2024-01-25 19:58
刚才被恐吓了… 好在版版及时处理举报，他们最近肯定也忙坏了。
清华有投铊毒的、硫酸泼熊的、一拳一拳把妻子活活打死的，怎么判这些奇葩也是世世代代跟着学校名声的，还有什么好洗的，互联网没记忆吗
散布这种谣言的不是蠢就是坏。santa clara county除了这个杀人case, 陈立人没有任何犯罪违法记录。任何人随时都可以上去查。 这个直接证据胜过一万个捕风捉影。
re 就这几天一水儿的屏蔽了好多让人恶心的id
谢谢楼主发的下面的链接： 1. 大家爬楼看一下164楼 YTD网友的分析以及这里： https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2024/01/Redacted-CHEN-SOF_Complaint.pdf”
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
谢谢楼主的上面的这个链接，很明显男生没有受到明显的伤害，前额上只是轻微的划痕可能是女生反抗的时候抓的，也指出没有显示男生有任何身体的伤害导致那些血迹是男生的blood。 可以想见女生是多么的无助，男生是多么的暴力残忍。。。也直接驳斥了有些造谣的所谓男生是“正当防卫” 或者 女生用刀 的谎言。
这个起诉书在哪里能查到吗
消消气 做无罪辩护是常规操作 接下来还会有说女方家暴他精神虐待他 他是个好公民好儿子好同事只是病了，值得全社会再给一个机会让他早日回归社区 各国杀妻犯辩护律师常规三板斧 坐等公诉人捶死他
孙铊家里那么大的背景尚且对正义的网友无计可施，上面这些威胁恐吓简直搞笑
本来就是，这些量刑条款（penal code) 都是固定的，10几条放那儿，对每个案子都一样的，就是根据案子的具体circumstances 往里套，这件案子简单，才3条，第一，三和十一条。有凶器的话肯定多好几条了。
不是一个人，那个是个博士，受害者是UCSD硕士，水军泼脏水给受害者。
这个complaint看起来是警方/公诉方一头雾水不确定what went down的节奏。通常来说还不得列个十几条。
弱弱地说一下，起诉书里面这些语言都是penal code的原话，并不是特殊描述被告， 比如4.421a 原话就是1) The crime involved great violence, great bodily harm, threat of great bodily harm, or other acts disclosing a high degree of cruelty, viciousness, or callousness。起诉书只需要提出cause of action，一般就是照抄法条原文，说检方提出被告符合这些犯罪的定义。起诉书一般是按最大的罪定，然后法官在庭审过程中慢慢adjust，给jury instruction最后应该用什么罪。说得难听点DA其实遇到这种high profile谋杀是很兴奋的，巴不得定重罪死罪，最开始DA提出的罪名不一定100%会被采用。比如被告现在是在医院? 听上去他应该没有受什么大伤，最可能是有自残自杀倾向羁押在psychiatric ward。那有一个可能就是他的律师会为他争取从murder减到man slaughter，加州刑法我也忘记了，但是大致理论都差不多的，murder是有预谋的，MS就是一时气昏了头杀人那个意思，所谓的LAP=legally adequately provoked.
对，条款只是套话而已。
时间紧急的情况下确实就是根据本案实际情况这么套上去的，但是具体掌握了什么证据你是看不出来的，不能说用了套话就证据不确凿什么了，要investigate，没有的东西不会往上硬套的。
先奔着死刑去吓死他 然后千万不要判死刑，确保他不能住单间，充分感受一下丛林生活里的人间值得
The crime involved great violence, great bodily harm, threat of great bodily harm, or other acts disclosing a high degree of cruelty, viciousness or callousness You were armed with or used a weapon during the commission of the crime The victim was particularly vulnerable You induced others to participate in the commission of the crime or occupied a position of leadership or dominance of other participants in the commission You induced a minor to commit or assist in the commission of the crime You threatened witnesses, unlawfully prevented or dissuaded witnesses from testifying, suborned perjury, or in any other way illegally interfered with the judicial process You were convicted of other crimes for which consecutive sentences could have been imposed, but for which concurrent sentences are being imposed The manner in which the crime was carried out indicates planning, sophistication or professionalism The crime involved an attempted or actual taking or damage of great monetary value The crime involved a large quantity of contraband You took advantage of a position of trust or confidence to commit the offense, and The crime constitutes a hate crime under California Penal Code Section 422.55 and no hate crime sentence enhancements (California Penal Code Section 422.75) are imposed, and the crime is not subject to sentencing under California Penal Code Section 1170.8 加州PC1170（b) 12条款都列上了，我看了就这三条符合。尽管控告预谋杀人，但是第八条（红色的）仍不符合，没证据有计划，就是大家讨论的凶手没准备凶器和逃跑，除非有新证据出现。
有威胁好啊，有威胁可以办绿卡快速通道了。
没计划没预谋显而易见啊！有预谋有计划男的早就处理现场跑路呗，还呆瓜愣一夜。。。
不好说。也许这个男的是在现场欣赏自己的杰作，回味了一夜高潮了一夜，以为不会这么快被发现，且舍不得跑呢？ 我早说了，就这样和尸体满屋子血亲密共处一夜，都不是正常人能做到的吧？
别说，我要是DA，我没准就挖掘下这个男的平时有没有什么性变态的证据。。。
“Ya Mr. Chen’s life is over. He is crazy cuz no matter how upset your spouse makes you, you don’t resort to murder. Correct? Something made him snap. It could be a mental health issue but temporary insanity is almost impossible to prove. The DA will hold firm this case is not complicated. Don’t worry. He may kill himself in prison many do.”
我就是回你前一贴的的，检方并不是一头雾水，只有这三条，没有更多的了。 作为一级谋杀控告的确有些弱，第八条能加上的话就版上钉钉了。
预谋又不是说要策划个几天才算预谋的 wiki: this does not mean that the accused made a plan far in advance, but it could be in the moment of the crime. If that person did the action knowing it would hurt or kill the other person, there was express malice involved, which is a form of malice aforethought.
通常来说只有有一丝丝可能，都会把条款加进去overcharge。这里并没有。
我的理解就是比如 打了两拳发现 哎呀 老婆倒地竟然挂了 — 这个可以洗成过失犯罪 激情杀人。 要是打了俩小时， 最后把老婆打死了， 这就很难洗了，这是故意杀人。 现场应该非常容易判断打了多久 哪里致命 过程怎么样都应该能还原。对于侦探和法医，是初级难度的案件吧。尸体新鲜，案发只有几个小时 。凶手伤处立刻就去医院做了检查，无法作假。现场所有东西都在。
You were a passive participant or played a minor role in the crime The victim was an initiator of, willing participant in, or aggressor or provoker of the incident The crime was committed because of an unusual circumstance, such as great provocation, that is unlikely to recur You participated in the crime under circumstances of coercion or duress, or your criminal conduct was partially excusable for some other reason not amounting to a defense You, with no apparent predisposition to do so, were induced by others to participate in the crime You exercised caution to avoid harm to persons or damage to property, the amounts of money or property taken were deliberately small, or no harm was done or threatened against the victim You believed that you had a claim or right to the property taken, or for other reasons mistakenly believed that your conduct was legal You were motivated by a desire to provide necessities for your family or self, and You suffered from repeated or continuous physical, sexual, or psychological abuse inflicted by the victim of the crime, and the victim of the crime, who inflicted the abuse, was your spouse, intimate cohabitant, or parent of your child, and the abuse does not amount to a defense.
+ You have no prior record or have an insignificant record of criminal conduct, considering the recency and frequency of prior crimes You were suffering from a mental or physical condition that significantly reduced culpability for the crime You voluntarily acknowledged wrongdoing before arrest or at an early stage of the criminal process You are ineligible for probation and but for that ineligibility would have been granted probation You made restitution to the victim, and Your prior performance on probation or parole was satisfactory
Overcharge这个很tricky，不一定是最好的方式，可能会backfire。再说了， “the overcharge is most often practiced by prosecutors to coerce a guilty plea.” 这里显然没什么用 easy case too obvious
是的这个案子本身不复杂的。
完全不一定。下面是完全假象：如果杀人犯杀了人当晚很快通知父母，父母冷静冷血，跟他商量好表演一出精神有问题的戏。所以陈才一晚上处在原地，警察来了主动承认是他自己杀的人。于是现在他家人很快赶来就开始跟律师着手精神有问题这条路线。
Nod 我猜杀人犯当晚肯定给中国打电话了。。。
这个应该很容易查吧
具体说什么当然没办法知道了，他和他父母可以可劲儿编
我觉得在原地呆了一夜完全不能证明没预谋啊。 有预谋不等于要谋划逃跑。一些杀人犯可能会预谋逃跑。但很多变态杀人犯就是enjoy犯罪现场啊。很多连环杀手还会多次回到杀人现场呢。
如果联系了很容易查吧
我是觉得别assume太多吧。他又不是惯犯，也没有变态或者暴力前科，激情犯罪更符合逻辑。除非他有精神病。
倒是可以证明他主观恶意极大 没有任何施救 如果他现在装着有自杀倾向完全是为了规避制裁，如果他自杀意愿这么强烈的话，当晚可以自尽，下不去手可以suicide by cop但是他见到警察的时候就是投降状态的 能看出求生意志很强烈，留下也是权衡利弊后的行为
激情犯罪不是这么用的… 精神病也不是这么用的…
激情杀人也是assume啊。精神病更是ungrounded assumption。变态前科也有第一次啊。第一次之前谁也没前科啊。
你们这么分析让人觉得human being简直太可怕了。一个没暴力前科“一切正常”的人突然如此恶魔，结婚简直是高危行为。
嗯我也是assume
我觉得你混淆了“没有暴力前科”和“没有一点迹象” 有没有暴力前科，要看犯罪记录 有没有迹象，要问身边人 犯罪记录我没有查看，但身边朋友都已经说了几个月前他们聚会的时候就拌嘴了 男方还一直跟着女方 朋友都看得到，作为女方一点迹象都看不出来我是不信的。可惜女方已经不能说话了。
anyway我也不是针对你哈。我第一个回帖的初衷是想说不能说他没逃跑，就一定没有预谋。
他才20几岁，人生刚刚开始，作为人生第一次犯罪不奇怪吧？也不能证明结婚就是高危行为啊。犯罪分子怎么能往普通人身上套？如果不伏法，下次犯罪不就是有前科了？再说了预兆什么的我们不知道细节，怎能确凿说他“无前科”呢？
嗯嗯明白。我还是判断是in the heat of passion。
“无前科”指没有犯罪记录。犯罪前都是普通人，只要是夫妻都会吵架，咋知道男的不会爆发呢？所以说是高危。
普通人家，办事很难飞快的啊。 如果没有护照，还得临时去办。
冒昧说下，我觉得你在乱套乱绕，heat of passion in practice适用范围很窄，他这种怎么也不能算是。退一万步，算他第一拳下去的时侯是被provoke了，再往后，一拳又一拳地致死，不及时报警，就是有意要对方死。另外你有意无意提到精神病，呵呵。
不一定是拳头打死的啊。比如有没有可能是掐死的？ 精神问题肯定也是辩护律师要consider的，不需要我“有意无意”
Anyway, 都是猜。看看后续facts。
🤷
对首贴里的警方报告写的很清楚忽略不计，坚持没有证据的臆测，这是什么做法，
建议改成 他/它 谁知道它是男是女， 也许故意想给女的抹黑呢
朱令人缘不好，不招人喜欢。
真心痛这个清华女孩。。 生前不知受到多少这个渣男和他的家人朋友身心灵的折磨， 却一直默默忍受。。。
所以他应该不是一直坐着啊… 也不会一直举着手啊
有的，我邻居之前还住过shelter一段时间，是专门保护女性的。
姐妹们！！！！！我们要站起来，帮助轩一妹妹，让她在天国也可以瞑目。也是帮助我们自己，丈夫有问题，我们要保护自己。 我在湾区有需要可以联系我帮忙组织，谢谢！
微信电话 有没有留案底
国内公婆很多唆使儿子打老婆， 反正是家务事。
搞不好 会帮杀人凶手
赞
女方有 人身保险 父母可以领，这个谷歌的朋友可以帮忙。
放胆过来，老娘鞭打你满地打滚
是这样的，可恶极了
女性保護組織本身就應該有funding，可以cover 律師費，咨詢費種種；但是加州具體是什麼組織我不太清楚，最好女方親友團去查一下
这些垃圾人真没人性！
凶手家里这么恶心啊？凶手判个25年已经是捡了大便宜了
存在短期的，一般被check的签证只给短期的。
并不是人人都是十年签
恶魔人渣！现在真的希望有十大酷刑 给恶魔洗地的都来看看，良心去哪了？？
微信里疯狂传的造谣贴简直了
女孩太可怜了！看到这里简直忍无可忍！死刑都不解恨！
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/UzNULflmq2AXs_jZCELPkA
这种无良公众号今天又来洗地辟谣想逃脱责任了，呵呵，成天东拼西凑各种小道谣言，造活人黄谣像上厕所一样司空见惯，造死者，尤其是受害者的黄谣就更缺德，知道这是对女生攻击破坏力最大又造谣成本最低的举动，而死者又无法自清，家人也老实巴交没什么反应。严重怀疑男生父母买了水军混淆视听，杀人放火就是事实，一级恶没得争辩。
真的是雇佣来的水军也就算了，有些无良网红蹭热度蹭流量，真的是要被雷劈的
还有这个其实是我设想里面最可怕的情况 我设想里最惨的就是男的一只手抓住女生（很有可能是抓着长头发），另一只手下死命拳击 这样女生基本上没有办法逃脱，只能用指甲抓男的的手臂 真的太惨了 渣男恶魔杀人犯，枪毙一百次都便宜了他
超级无良，所以搞来搞去只有几张300多人的大群，这个女生可能响应去了谁的聚会，那又能说明什么？前面那些黄谣她怎么不出来验证？无良网红蹭流量恶心死了
不可能是雇的水军。 这个Vince团队很恶心 我以前不小心点到过他们的帖子。
也从另一方面说明国内对于男女道德的双标，很多人内心对于女性的不屑和恶意。真是太难受了。
可以去把那个公众号举报了。我要举报的时候进去看才知道不是一篇短文，拿了多少钱花了多少心血才造出来的。太恶心了。
https://www.163.com/dy/article/IP8TF70D0553BELO.html
支持楼主