第一个问题， 为什么选了西班牙？ 总的来说， 相对便宜的生活费用和医疗保险； 相对良好的天气； 相对接地气的大城市和公共交通； 相对多的中国人社区和超市； 相对平和的政治环境； 相对不排外的当地居民；相对多的旅游资源；相对容易学的语言。可能没有一样是最好的， 但是总体可能是最容易适应的。 也不知道是不是盲人摸象。 感谢回复。完全就是在研究。为什么没选中国和美国，我比较悲观，就是觉得十到十五年内中美必有一战，没法选边站，只好退而求其次，退到欧洲去。语言我觉得还好，Duolingo 天天学一会儿，五年应该有点底。我觉得西班牙的中餐做得不错， 中国店也不错， 至少马德里和巴萨给我的印象是这样。至于政治环境， 还有比美国更分裂的吗？不用恐怖份子，路上，商场，电影院，邻居， 持枪的发疯普通人。还有比中国更一根筋的吗？欧洲可能都有点排外， 不过体会过德国和瑞士，大概西班牙好很多了。 第二个问题，怎么去？这个其实相对容易。假设已经入籍， 是美国公民。可行之道是Spain Non Lucrative Visa (NLV): To be eligible for the Spain Retirement Visa, you‘ll need to show that you have a total amount of €27,115.20 per year. Alternatively, you can show that you have a guaranteed monthly income of €2,259.53. Alongside this, you''ll need to show an additional amount of €6,778 per year for each family member you plan to bring along with you to Spain. you''re required to obtain valid private health insurance that will cover any medical expenses for the duration of your stay. Your health insurance should provide coverage for yourself and any dependents you may have. Private health insurance in Spain can be obtained at a fairly low cost. You can expect to pay between €50 to €200 per month, depending on which coverage plan you choose. If you wish to renew your Retirement Visa, you''ll need to spend at least 6 months in Spain during your stay. 申请签证需要2-3个月， 申请费 121.26 欧元。 五年后， 如果每年都在西班牙六个月，可以申请永居。再过五年， 可以申请公民。 所以呢， 也不是一直待着， 可以只待六个月， 美国六个月？ 中国六个月？至少多一个选项？ 第三个问题， 去哪儿？ 我其实挺喜欢巴萨的，但是一开始就把它排除了。巴萨的独立问题，除了西班牙语，可能还要学加泰语。巴萨还也有点贵。巴斯克斯也排除了，也是独立问题，好像租房也少。南部的赛维利亚和马拉加也排除了，夏天也太热了。虽然便宜，也算大城市。我还是想在大点的城市，不想去太小的地方，至少可以直飞美国或者中国。所以在马德里和瓦伦西亚之间横跳。阿里坎特也还在选项中。 第四个问题， 买房吗？现在觉得不用买。西班牙的房子， 尤其是大城市，涨了不少。觉得不合算。另外， 如果不是一年都住的话。Okupas movement 好像是个问题。用Idelista 可以搜到很多。包括Fully furnished. 大概可以拎包入住。以马德里为例， 交通良好的地区两卧一卫大概2000欧。 可能正好把美国的房子租了顶上。 看很多人问语言，我觉得在马德里或者巴萨说英语应该没有问题，南部小城市可能有问题。西班牙语好像还不算太难学，西班牙政府提供给外国人学语言的班，好像一个月几十欧元，正好可以认识人便于融入。 现在先想了这么多。我觉得我好像属于总是持有Unpopular Opinion 的一类人。过了今年，我呆在美国的时间就超过中国了， 可是好像两个地方都没有bonding。 我没觉得折腾或者受罪什么的， 反而觉得又要体会了另外一种活法，有点兴奋。想飞的心永远不死，与同好者共勉。
很好办啊。台湾金卡相当美国的H1签证，拿金卡去台湾登陆以后就有资格以当地人的条件加入台湾当地的健康保险计划，据说服务很好还很便宜（跟美国比）。在台湾呆满3年就有资格拿台湾的绿卡（永久居留） https://goldcard.nat.gov.tw/en/ https://goldcard.nat.gov.tw/en/about/ Launched in 2018, the Taiwan Employment Gold Card is a 4-in-1 card, that includes a resident visa, work permit, Alien Resident Certificate (ARC), and re-entry permit, which allows you to leave and re-enter Taiwan multiple times over the course of 1-3 years. Applicants can apply online without sponsorship. Four-in-One Work Permit: Allows cardholders to seek employment freely, obtain employment at any time, work any part-time job legally, and freely change jobs. Resident Visa: Long-term visa which allows cardholders to stay in Taiwan for more than 180 days. Alien Resident Certificate: A physical ID card proving that you can live in Taiwan legally. Re-entry Permit: Allows unlimited entry and exit from Taiwan (even during COVID-19). Qualification is based on an assessment of your professional skills. You don’t need to have already secured a job in Taiwan. The Gold Card costs anywhere between USD 100 and USD 310 depending on your nationality and the duration of the card. A perfect application takes 30-days, however, if additional supporting documents are requested, expect a time frame of 50-60 days. Industries that are eligible to apply for the Taiwan Employment Gold Card: Please select which single ministry is most relevant, and in most cases also select a specific entry on the list of qualifications in that particular industry for your application.Science & Technology (National Science and Technology Council) Economy (Ministry of Economic Affairs) Education (Ministry of Education) Culture & Arts (Ministry of Culture) Sport (Ministry of Education) Finance (Financial Supervisory Commission) Law (Ministry of Justice) Architecture (The Construction and Planning Agency, Ministry of the Interior) National Defense (Ministry of National Defense) Digital (Ministry of Digital Affairs) Special cases that, with consultation, are recognized by the NDC Benefits This card is an open work permit issued to employment-seeking individuals that require neither pre-confirmed hiring by nor application through any employer. Gold Card holders who work in Taiwan for the first time and meet specified conditions are eligible to apply for a 50% tax exemption on annual salary income exceeding NT$3 million in the first 5 years. Eligible to apply for permanent residency after three years (excluding Hong Kong and Macao residents). Obtaining a Doctorate Degree in the R.O.C counts towards one of the three years that is needed. Employment Gold Card holders who are employed to engage in professional work in Taiwan, or who are employers or self-employed business owners in Taiwan, and their dependent relatives, can directly join the National Health Insurance system without having to wait six months for inclusion.
很好办啊。台湾金卡相当美国的H1签证，拿金卡去台湾登陆以后就有资格以当地人的条件加入台湾当地的健康保险计划，据说服务很好还很便宜（跟美国比）。在台湾呆满3年就有资格拿台湾的绿卡（永久居留） https://goldcard.nat.gov.tw/en/ https://goldcard.nat.gov.tw/en/about/ Launched in 2018, the Taiwan Employment Gold Card is a 4-in-1 card, that includes a resident visa, work permit, Alien Resident Certificate (ARC), and re-entry permit, which allows you to leave and re-enter Taiwan multiple times over the course of 1-3 years. Applicants can apply online without sponsorship. Four-in-One Work Permit: Allows cardholders to seek employment freely, obtain employment at any time, work any part-time job legally, and freely change jobs. Resident Visa: Long-term visa which allows cardholders to stay in Taiwan for more than 180 days. Alien Resident Certificate: A physical ID card proving that you can live in Taiwan legally. Re-entry Permit: Allows unlimited entry and exit from Taiwan (even during COVID-19). Qualification is based on an assessment of your professional skills. You don’t need to have already secured a job in Taiwan. The Gold Card costs anywhere between USD 100 and USD 310 depending on your nationality and the duration of the card. A perfect application takes 30-days, however, if additional supporting documents are requested, expect a time frame of 50-60 days. Industries that are eligible to apply for the Taiwan Employment Gold Card: Please select which single ministry is most relevant, and in most cases also select a specific entry on the list of qualifications in that particular industry for your application.Science & Technology (National Science and Technology Council) Economy (Ministry of Economic Affairs) Education (Ministry of Education) Culture & Arts (Ministry of Culture) Sport (Ministry of Education) Finance (Financial Supervisory Commission) Law (Ministry of Justice) Architecture (The Construction and Planning Agency, Ministry of the Interior) National Defense (Ministry of National Defense) Digital (Ministry of Digital Affairs) Special cases that, with consultation, are recognized by the NDC Benefits This card is an open work permit issued to employment-seeking individuals that require neither pre-confirmed hiring by nor application through any employer. Gold Card holders who work in Taiwan for the first time and meet specified conditions are eligible to apply for a 50% tax exemption on annual salary income exceeding NT$3 million in the first 5 years. Eligible to apply for permanent residency after three years (excluding Hong Kong and Macao residents). Obtaining a Doctorate Degree in the R.O.C counts towards one of the three years that is needed. Employment Gold Card holders who are employed to engage in professional work in Taiwan, or who are employers or self-employed business owners in Taiwan, and their dependent relatives, can directly join the National Health Insurance system without having to wait six months for inclusion.
感谢回复。完全就是在研究。为什么没选中国和美国，我比较悲观，就是觉得十到十五年内中美必有一战，没法选边站，只好退而求其次，退到欧洲去。语言我觉得还好，Duolingo 天天学一会儿，五年应该有点底。我觉得西班牙的中餐做得不错， 中国店也不错， 至少马德里和巴萨给我的印象是这样。至于政治环境， 还有比美国更分裂的吗？不用恐怖份子，路上，商场，电影院，邻居， 持枪的发疯普通人。还有比中国更一根筋的吗？欧洲可能都有点排外， 不过体会过德国和瑞士，大概西班牙好很多了。
第二个问题，怎么去？这个其实相对容易。假设已经入籍， 是美国公民。可行之道是Spain Non Lucrative Visa (NLV): To be eligible for the Spain Retirement Visa, you‘ll need to show that you have a total amount of €27,115.20 per year. Alternatively, you can show that you have a guaranteed monthly income of €2,259.53. Alongside this, you''ll need to show an additional amount of €6,778 per year for each family member you plan to bring along with you to Spain. you''re required to obtain valid private health insurance that will cover any medical expenses for the duration of your stay. Your health insurance should provide coverage for yourself and any dependents you may have. Private health insurance in Spain can be obtained at a fairly low cost. You can expect to pay between €50 to €200 per month, depending on which coverage plan you choose. If you wish to renew your Retirement Visa, you''ll need to spend at least 6 months in Spain during your stay. 申请签证需要2-3个月， 申请费 121.26 欧元。 五年后， 如果每年都在西班牙六个月，可以申请永居。再过五年， 可以申请公民。 所以呢， 也不是一直待着， 可以只待六个月， 美国六个月？ 中国六个月？至少多一个选项？
第三个问题， 去哪儿？ 我其实挺喜欢巴萨的，但是一开始就把它排除了。巴萨的独立问题，除了西班牙语，可能还要学加泰语。巴萨还也有点贵。巴斯克斯也排除了，也是独立问题，好像租房也少。南部的赛维利亚和马拉加也排除了，夏天也太热了。虽然便宜，也算大城市。我还是想在大点的城市，不想去太小的地方，至少可以直飞美国或者中国。所以在马德里和瓦伦西亚之间横跳。阿里坎特也还在选项中。
第四个问题， 买房吗？现在觉得不用买。西班牙的房子， 尤其是大城市，涨了不少。觉得不合算。另外， 如果不是一年都住的话。Okupas movement 好像是个问题。用Idelista 可以搜到很多。包括Fully furnished. 大概可以拎包入住。以马德里为例， 交通良好的地区两卧一卫大概2000欧。 可能正好把美国的房子租了顶上。
看很多人问语言，我觉得在马德里或者巴萨说英语应该没有问题，南部小城市可能有问题。西班牙语好像还不算太难学，西班牙政府提供给外国人学语言的班，好像一个月几十欧元，正好可以认识人便于融入。
现在先想了这么多。我觉得我好像属于总是持有Unpopular Opinion 的一类人。过了今年，我呆在美国的时间就超过中国了， 可是好像两个地方都没有bonding。 我没觉得折腾或者受罪什么的， 反而觉得又要体会了另外一种活法，有点兴奋。想飞的心永远不死，与同好者共勉。
等更新。结论是靠谱吗？
身份医疗怎么解决
语言不是最大的问题，关键是没有主人翁的自在感，只是客人寄居。
还是选南加州吧， 湾区， gilroy 可能也可以吧。
老了， 医疗第一。
在西班牙住过N年，那就说说吧。生活费用是还好，海鲜新鲜，医疗也还可以。天气要看地区，地中海沿岸好一点，那几个小岛好一点。政治环境平和？非也非也，巴斯克国家一直要独立，恐怖分子多着呢。不排外的当地居民？大错特错！旅游资源，是。语言好学？是！
相对不会的语言。。。 我觉得语言和中餐的不足是个大hurdle. 当然可以买个vacation house.
语言没问题的话就有主人翁的自在感了。
巴斯克也要独立？我还以为只有加特罗尼亚要独立。
都是白日梦，lol
美籍的话申请台湾金卡挺容易的啊，只要300美元就可以自己办。而且有台湾金卡可以申请台湾的健保
最大的问题其实是担心哪天解放军就打过去了，怕白折腾
医疗保险怎么办？
+同问，台湾的医疗保险怎么样？
养老我也只考虑中美。
去了西班牙一次，只能说非常没有被impressed。文化是璀璨的，但食物，远不如中餐丰富多彩。
这不是废话嘛，如果要回去，当初何必离开，莫不是脑力三
公民了去西班牙还可以永居，还可以公民。 你公民了回中国都不能永居，每六个月就得折腾一次，主人翁的感觉怎么来的？
很好办啊。台湾金卡相当美国的H1签证，拿金卡去台湾登陆以后就有资格以当地人的条件加入台湾当地的健康保险计划，据说服务很好还很便宜（跟美国比）。在台湾呆满3年就有资格拿台湾的绿卡（永久居留）
https://goldcard.nat.gov.tw/en/
https://goldcard.nat.gov.tw/en/about/ Launched in 2018, the Taiwan Employment Gold Card is a 4-in-1 card, that includes a resident visa, work permit, Alien Resident Certificate (ARC), and re-entry permit, which allows you to leave and re-enter Taiwan multiple times over the course of 1-3 years. Applicants can apply online without sponsorship. Four-in-One Work Permit: Allows cardholders to seek employment freely, obtain employment at any time, work any part-time job legally, and freely change jobs. Resident Visa: Long-term visa which allows cardholders to stay in Taiwan for more than 180 days. Alien Resident Certificate: A physical ID card proving that you can live in Taiwan legally. Re-entry Permit: Allows unlimited entry and exit from Taiwan (even during COVID-19). Qualification is based on an assessment of your professional skills. You don’t need to have already secured a job in Taiwan. The Gold Card costs anywhere between USD 100 and USD 310 depending on your nationality and the duration of the card. A perfect application takes 30-days, however, if additional supporting documents are requested, expect a time frame of 50-60 days. Industries that are eligible to apply for the Taiwan Employment Gold Card: Please select which single ministry is most relevant, and in most cases also select a specific entry on the list of qualifications in that particular industry for your application. Science & Technology (National Science and Technology Council) Economy (Ministry of Economic Affairs) Education (Ministry of Education) Culture & Arts (Ministry of Culture) Sport (Ministry of Education) Finance (Financial Supervisory Commission) Law (Ministry of Justice) Architecture (The Construction and Planning Agency, Ministry of the Interior) National Defense (Ministry of National Defense) Digital (Ministry of Digital Affairs) Special cases that, with consultation, are recognized by the NDC Benefits This card is an open work permit issued to employment-seeking individuals that require neither pre-confirmed hiring by nor application through any employer. Gold Card holders who work in Taiwan for the first time and meet specified conditions are eligible to apply for a 50% tax exemption on annual salary income exceeding NT$3 million in the first 5 years. Eligible to apply for permanent residency after three years (excluding Hong Kong and Macao residents). Obtaining a Doctorate Degree in the R.O.C counts towards one of the three years that is needed. Employment Gold Card holders who are employed to engage in professional work in Taiwan, or who are employers or self-employed business owners in Taiwan, and their dependent relatives, can directly join the National Health Insurance system without having to wait six months for inclusion.
非常好（跟美国比）还便宜。当然大病特殊疾病罕见疾病还是美国好。
+1
Thanks for sharing
现在我就想回中国 反正那些事儿我都看得很开
re 到老了，像我爸妈公婆那样就很好了。不在乎网上能不能骂政府，街上到处有天眼没有隐私。
Mark. 等看。刚去葡萄牙西班牙玩了两星期，真是便宜。
这个帖子要Mark🌟
生你养你的中国让你回去吗？进国门不易，还别提医保了。一大把年龄还想当黑户？
真心希望中国变得民主，富裕，越来越好，最好以后实现双国籍不是梦，美华可以两边跑，哈哈！
另：这只是一个小老百姓的愿望，请回不了国的那拨人，别在这儿拉仇恨谩骂！
我退休也不会回国。我是跟美国比。我们也是来了差不多十几年才真正找到家的感觉。
年纪大了，再学一门新的语言，去适应一个陌生的环境，还值不值得再遭二遍罪？我觉得很不值得。当年从中国到美国，至少生活水平有了巨大的提高。退休了去西班牙，生活没有任何提高。
我是打算住孩子附近，他们有需要的时候，我们可以随时顶上。他们二代移民也不容易。
另外不得不提的是，欧洲不管哪个国家，对华人都没有美国好。虽然美国也有各种问题，但是华人在这里的地位还是比欧洲好很多。
确定？中国人全民有虔诚信仰的时候是最可怕的时候，文化大革命。欧洲也是信仰越强烈的时代越落后，拥抱科学人文抛弃上帝才开始发展，信仰可以有，尊老爱幼，仁义礼智信这类要求自己的，宗教信仰等同愚昧
先去Miami体验一下生活就知道了。
re，还有lz低估了西班牙语的难度。
去玩是可以，呆一两个月到处走走，但是退休长居的话不是美国就是中国了。
“想飞的心永远不死，与同好者共勉。” 期待你的更新！
最烦听见说这个了，没有宗教不是说没有信仰，信个洋教真把自己当成道德模范了。以宗教之名做坏事的不要太多。
我08年那会儿真是看好中国，海归了8年。
但是现在越来越悲观。中国不仅民主化在开倒车，富裕很可能也会出问题。而美华轻松两边跑的可能性更是越来越小。
Mark 若干年后说不定派上用场
确实，NC一神教