Samuel Alito grills Harvard attorney on lower personal scores for Asian applicants: “The record shows that Asian student applicants get the lowest personal scores of any other group. What accounts for that?" Alito asked. "It it has to be one of two things: that they really do lack integrity, courage, kindness and empathy to the same degree as students of other races. Or there has to be something wrong with this personal score."
Samuel Alito grills Harvard attorney on lower personal scores for Asian applicants: “The record shows that Asian student applicants get the lowest personal scores of any other group. What accounts for that?" Alito asked. "It it has to be one of two things: that they really do lack integrity, courage, kindness and empathy to the same degree as students of other races. Or there has to be something wrong with this personal score." mightyjohn 发表于 2022-10-31 18:16
金博士当年的梦想: " I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."
金博士当年的梦想: " I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." Derechenz 发表于 2022-10-31 19:14
如果google affirmtive action或者相关词条，大部分主流媒体（除了fox）报道的配图都是sc门外支持affirmtive action的学生照片。。。甚至还专门放着Asian American for affirmative action的标语。。。只有极少数小众媒体才有配反对者的图。。。 管中窥豹，可见一斑。谁站在华人对立面已经很清楚了
这个案子不仅仅是维护亚裔利益，更重大的意义在于美国以后是走merit based还是走skin color based的录用标准，这关系到美国未来的竞争力。如果美国走skin color based的路子，这国家迟早完蛋。当然政客们看的是自己短期的选票，美国未来如何在其次。 k3tchup 发表于 2022-10-31 19:22
亚裔学生K12因为stereotype受到老师优待所以大学入学需要纠正压低亚裔比例 https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/01/opinion/affirmative-action-asian-american-bias.html Asian American Students Face Bias, but It’s Not What You Might Think Nov. 1, 2022 Credit...Leonardo Santamaria
By Jennifer Lee Dr. Lee is a sociology professor at Columbia University and a 2022-23 member of the Institute for Advanced Study. She is a co-author of “The Asian American Achievement Paradox.” Affirmative action is on trial again. This time, opponents of race-conscious college admission practices are claiming that Asian Americans are hurt by it. The plaintiffs in Students for Fair Admissions Inc. v. President & Fellows of Harvard College, which presented oral arguments before the Supreme Court on Monday, allege that Harvard holds Asian American applicants to higher academic standards and rates them lower than other students on personal characteristics, such as fit, courage and likability. The proposed solution is to abandon race as a factor in admissions decisions. This approach is based on a fundamental misconception. Asian Americans face bias in education, but not in the direction the plaintiffs claim. Research that I and others have done shows that K-12 teachers and schools may actually give Asian Americans a boost based on assumptions about race. Affirmative action policies currently in place in university admissions do not account for the positive bias that Asian Americans may experience before they apply to college. Abandoning race as a consideration in admissions would further obscure this bias.
But in an educational context, those biases play out in very unexpected ways. In “The Asian American Achievement Paradox,” which I wrote with Min Zhou and is based on 162 interviews of Asian, Hispanic, Black and white adults in Los Angeles, we found that Asian American precollege students benefit from “stereotype promise”: Teachers assume they are smart, hard-working, high-achieving and morally deserving, which can boost the grades of academically mediocre Asian American students. We found that teachers’ positive biases of Asian American students sometimes led them to place even low-achieving Asian American students on competitive academic tracks, including honors and Advanced Placement classes that can be gateways to competitive four-year universities. Once there, we found that these students took their schoolwork more seriously, spent more time on their homework than they had previously and were placed in classes with high-achieving peers, thereby boosting their academic outcomes. A Vietnamese American student I’ll call Ophelia (all names have been changed to protect participants’ privacy under ethical research guidelines) described herself as “not very intelligent” and recalled nearly being held back in second grade because of her poor academic performance. Ophelia had a C average throughout elementary and junior high school, and when she took an exam to be put in Advanced Placement classes for high school English and science, she failed. Ophelia’s teachers placed her, with her mother’s support, on the AP track anyway. Once there, she said that something “just clicked,” and she began to excel in her classes. “I wanted to work hard and prove I was a good student,” Ophelia explained. “I think the competition kind of increases your want to do better.” She graduated from high school with a grade-point average of 4.2 (exceeding a perfect 4.0) and was admitted into a highly competitive pharmacy program. Ophelia’s performance was precisely what her teachers expected, so they did not have to confront the role they may have played in reproducing the stereotype of Asian American exceptionalism. Ophelia’s experience is not unique. In our research, we found numerous examples of Asian American students who were anointed as promising by their teachers, even in spite of weak grades and test scores.
None of the white, Black or Hispanic adults we interviewed were treated similarly. Hispanic students in particular experience the opposite effect in school, as my work with Estela Diaz shows. The Hispanic students we studied received little encouragement from their teachers to attend college and even less information about how to get in. The sociologist Sean J. Drake drew on two years of ethnographic research in a highly ranked Southern California high school and found a similar positive bias toward Asian American students: “I don’t necessarily look at my classroom and treat a kid differently because they are Asian, but I know that if I have an Asian student in my classroom, I can count on that student. That student will probably work hard and be engaged. I can rely on that kid, and the parents, more so than I can for other groups,” one teacher told him. Teachers’ positive biases toward Asian students affect their assessment of white, Black and Hispanic students, too. The economists Ying Shi and Maria Zhu looked at the standardized test scores of public school students in North Carolina and compared them to teachers’ judgments of the same students. In research the economists presented at a National Bureau of Economic Research conference this spring, they found persistent Asian-white disparities in teacher ratings. Teachers are significantly more likely to rate Asian students’ skills higher relative to their standardized test scores compared to similarly performing white peers in the same class, even after adjusting for sociodemographic and behavioral measures. Dr. Shi and Dr. Zhu also found that the presence of a single Asian student in a class amplifies teachers’ negative assessments of Black and Hispanic students vis-à-vis white students. Research in education typically focuses on Black-white or Hispanic-white achievement gaps and pays little or no attention to Asian Americans. But these new lines of research show how much more we learn about the ways race affects achievement when we include Asian Americans in our studies. They also show what we get wrong when we exclude them. Asian Americans made up 6 percent of the U.S. population in 2020, and 27.6 percent of Harvard’s class of 2026. Students for Fair Admissions argues that number would be even higher if admissions were based on objective, meritocratic metrics, unconstrained by race. But the research my colleagues and I have done shows that some of the metrics that are most commonly cited as objective indicators of academic talent and effort — things like teachers’ assessments and grades — are subject to bias and woven into the educational system well before students apply to college. Asian American students who have earned admission to Harvard are smart, promising and have no doubt worked very hard. But in ways that are most likely not visible to them, they may have also benefited from their racial status long before they applied. Race-conscious policies provide a mechanism to address this and other biases, and help level the field of opportunity for a diverse student body. Jennifer Lee is a sociology professor at Columbia University and a 2022-23 member of the Institute for Advanced Study. She is a co-author of “The Asian American Achievement Paradox.” The Times is committed to publishing a diversity of letters to the editor. We’d like to hear what you think about this or any of our articles. Here are some tips. And here’s our email: [email protected]. Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook, Twitter (@NYTopinion) and Instagram.
这个案子不仅仅是维护亚裔利益，更重大的意义在于美国以后是走merit based还是走skin color based的录用标准，这关系到美国未来的竞争力。如果美国走skin color based的路子，这国家迟早完蛋。当然政客们看的是自己短期的选票，美国未来如何在其次。 k3tchup 发表于 2022-10-31 19:22
这个案子不仅仅是维护亚裔利益，更重大的意义在于美国以后是走merit based还是走skin color based的录用标准，这关系到美国未来的竞争力。如果美国走skin color based的路子，这国家迟早完蛋。当然政客们看的是自己短期的选票，美国未来如何在其次。 k3tchup 发表于 2022-10-31 19:22
高法选justice都搞AA。Biden明确要选个黑人女的，谁敢说this is wrong?
要好好学习，哈佛不如理工大学
我觉得大学应该择优录取。照你的逻辑，美国亿万富翁里犹太人比例那么高，不合理，降下来对社会有好处，是不是？还有高科技的高管印度人那么多，降下来才对社会有好处？
我持保留意见，我支持德州那种每个学区top多少多少直接进TX Austin的AA。这是我个人观点
批评拜登这种Justice搞AA的很多啊。
剛听到沒有一个华人学生出来做witness. I think this is the problem
同意。太obsessed 了。在美国条条大路通罗马 不须这么卷。一直沒太关心这个case 因为不推我的孩子上Ivy league 能进去好 进不去也无所谓 刚开始听 被shock了 搞了这多年 沒找出一个学生愿意做witness？有跟踪紧地讲讲为啥沒有witness?
可以理解 但this is a problem. 不愿意为自己想要的目标承担风险 付出代价 就是个problem 好多其他种族的年轻人巴不得跑到spotlight 下呢
你说几个名字看看。不是听证会的时候刁难她，而是指责白等先看肤色而不是qualification。。。
结果要好久才出来
这裁决对我们的子孙意义重大
哦哦，我看新闻以为结果已经出来了，可能只是高院表达了反对AA的倾向，但是还没出verdict https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-supreme-court-tackles-harvard-unc-race-conscious-admissions-2022-10-31/
结果预计6月份才出来
https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcripts/2022/21-707_9o6b.pdf
NBA里黑人比例太高，降下来才对社会有好处?
除了历史的、经济的、文化的原因，还有一个可能更重要更根本根本无解而且无人敢提的原因：黑人的智商低？
好恶心，凭什么在学业上倾注那么多心血的亚裔孩子去上社区大学
问得好，他也不敢说亚裔孩子都是品质有问题
GOP好几个议员批评电视上不是有播的嘛。rand paul肯定有他啊。
这次不支持共和党，以后翻盘AA没机会了。
觉得根据肤色决定大学录取，不管动机如何，就是种族主义
管中窥豹，可见一斑。谁站在华人对立面已经很清楚了
系统提示：若遇到视频无法播放请点击下方链接
https://www.youtube.com/embed/HyPeQrDOYrw?showinfo=0
同意啊，问题是华人自己看不上自己，非要哈佛啊之类的给自己盖个章。歧视的地方太多了，要改变这个案子不是最好的选择。
你这个原因是不成立的。难道你不知道很多美国大学生的作业和论文都是外包给肯尼亚做的吗？
世界上最恶心的一种人就是别人做什么他都是这个不好那个更佳，唧唧歪歪评头论足。自己啥也不做。
难道最恶心的不是臆测别人什么都不做吗？当然以己推人是可以理解的。我做我的，你做你的，不强求一致，目的都是为华人争取最大权益就好。非要人人叫好才可以吗？
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音频里面，justice jackson简直是赤膊上直接支持AA，代为回答问题
如果是个亚裔自恨党当上justice，哪里有胆量像jackson一样屁股歪成这样赤裸裸给自己族裔争取利益
自己是AA 的直接获利者啊，当然要支持
这屁股歪得。。。赤裸裸的种族主义。 这样的人能入选最高法院是美国的耻辱。
主要还是选民啊。我是绝对不会选支持AA的政客的。但是架不住有人选，人还不少。
谁要进哈佛啊？但是哈佛之类的大学搞AA就不可以容忍。这么基础的是非，是可忍孰不可忍也！
要是不把哈佛的AA给搬到，家门口的旗舰早晚也会AA。这就是骨牌效应。而且事实上很多公立州立大学已经AA了。所以哈佛这个官司不仅仅是针对哈佛而是左派掌控的整个大学教育体系。
我看了一篇分析文章，感觉Amy和Kavanaugh很难说，他两的问题似乎集中在政策要实施多久，最初那个高院的案子意见是25年，今年好像是19年还是20年，如果他两不想推翻高院的先列，那不就黄了。
动了白人的蛋糕。 白人觉得不光上学吃亏，申请各种政府工作都没机会。
也可能他们是靠AA当上的大法官
Asian American Students Face Bias, but It’s Not What You Might Think Nov. 1, 2022
By Jennifer Lee Dr. Lee is a sociology professor at Columbia University and a 2022-23 member of the Institute for Advanced Study. She is a co-author of “The Asian American Achievement Paradox.”
Affirmative action is on trial again. This time, opponents of race-conscious college admission practices are claiming that Asian Americans are hurt by it. The plaintiffs in Students for Fair Admissions Inc. v. President & Fellows of Harvard College, which presented oral arguments before the Supreme Court on Monday, allege that Harvard holds Asian American applicants to higher academic standards and rates them lower than other students on personal characteristics, such as fit, courage and likability. The proposed solution is to abandon race as a factor in admissions decisions. This approach is based on a fundamental misconception. Asian Americans face bias in education, but not in the direction the plaintiffs claim. Research that I and others have done shows that K-12 teachers and schools may actually give Asian Americans a boost based on assumptions about race. Affirmative action policies currently in place in university admissions do not account for the positive bias that Asian Americans may experience before they apply to college. Abandoning race as a consideration in admissions would further obscure this bias.
But in an educational context, those biases play out in very unexpected ways. In “The Asian American Achievement Paradox,” which I wrote with Min Zhou and is based on 162 interviews of Asian, Hispanic, Black and white adults in Los Angeles, we found that Asian American precollege students benefit from “stereotype promise”: Teachers assume they are smart, hard-working, high-achieving and morally deserving, which can boost the grades of academically mediocre Asian American students. We found that teachers’ positive biases of Asian American students sometimes led them to place even low-achieving Asian American students on competitive academic tracks, including honors and Advanced Placement classes that can be gateways to competitive four-year universities. Once there, we found that these students took their schoolwork more seriously, spent more time on their homework than they had previously and were placed in classes with high-achieving peers, thereby boosting their academic outcomes. A Vietnamese American student I’ll call Ophelia (all names have been changed to protect participants’ privacy under ethical research guidelines) described herself as “not very intelligent” and recalled nearly being held back in second grade because of her poor academic performance. Ophelia had a C average throughout elementary and junior high school, and when she took an exam to be put in Advanced Placement classes for high school English and science, she failed. Ophelia’s teachers placed her, with her mother’s support, on the AP track anyway. Once there, she said that something “just clicked,” and she began to excel in her classes. “I wanted to work hard and prove I was a good student,” Ophelia explained. “I think the competition kind of increases your want to do better.” She graduated from high school with a grade-point average of 4.2 (exceeding a perfect 4.0) and was admitted into a highly competitive pharmacy program. Ophelia’s performance was precisely what her teachers expected, so they did not have to confront the role they may have played in reproducing the stereotype of Asian American exceptionalism. Ophelia’s experience is not unique. In our research, we found numerous examples of Asian American students who were anointed as promising by their teachers, even in spite of weak grades and test scores.
None of the white, Black or Hispanic adults we interviewed were treated similarly. Hispanic students in particular experience the opposite effect in school, as my work with Estela Diaz shows. The Hispanic students we studied received little encouragement from their teachers to attend college and even less information about how to get in. The sociologist Sean J. Drake drew on two years of ethnographic research in a highly ranked Southern California high school and found a similar positive bias toward Asian American students: “I don’t necessarily look at my classroom and treat a kid differently because they are Asian, but I know that if I have an Asian student in my classroom, I can count on that student. That student will probably work hard and be engaged. I can rely on that kid, and the parents, more so than I can for other groups,” one teacher told him. Teachers’ positive biases toward Asian students affect their assessment of white, Black and Hispanic students, too. The economists Ying Shi and Maria Zhu looked at the standardized test scores of public school students in North Carolina and compared them to teachers’ judgments of the same students. In research the economists presented at a National Bureau of Economic Research conference this spring, they found persistent Asian-white disparities in teacher ratings. Teachers are significantly more likely to rate Asian students’ skills higher relative to their standardized test scores compared to similarly performing white peers in the same class, even after adjusting for sociodemographic and behavioral measures. Dr. Shi and Dr. Zhu also found that the presence of a single Asian student in a class amplifies teachers’ negative assessments of Black and Hispanic students vis-à-vis white students. Research in education typically focuses on Black-white or Hispanic-white achievement gaps and pays little or no attention to Asian Americans. But these new lines of research show how much more we learn about the ways race affects achievement when we include Asian Americans in our studies. They also show what we get wrong when we exclude them. Asian Americans made up 6 percent of the U.S. population in 2020, and 27.6 percent of Harvard’s class of 2026. Students for Fair Admissions argues that number would be even higher if admissions were based on objective, meritocratic metrics, unconstrained by race. But the research my colleagues and I have done shows that some of the metrics that are most commonly cited as objective indicators of academic talent and effort — things like teachers’ assessments and grades — are subject to bias and woven into the educational system well before students apply to college. Asian American students who have earned admission to Harvard are smart, promising and have no doubt worked very hard. But in ways that are most likely not visible to them, they may have also benefited from their racial status long before they applied. Race-conscious policies provide a mechanism to address this and other biases, and help level the field of opportunity for a diverse student body.
Jennifer Lee is a sociology professor at Columbia University and a 2022-23 member of the Institute for Advanced Study. She is a co-author of “The Asian American Achievement Paradox.” The Times is committed to publishing a diversity of letters to the editor. We’d like to hear what you think about this or any of our articles. Here are some tips. And here’s our email: [email protected]. Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook, Twitter (@NYTopinion) and Instagram.
一个正常的社会，大学应该是全体公民共同享有的，让下一代接受高等教育，传承人类知识的场所，而不是老钱的社交游乐园。
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如果继续支持AA，他们也对不起conservative justices这样的label，而且Barrett成为大法官前表态过反对AA
大千世界 无奇不有 这lee是韩裔
这个“不仅仅。。。”的说法好像没太大帮助。
如果别人不相信您的这个利益论，那么自然没用。
如果别人相信，那么说出是维护亚裔利益难道还不够么？ 如果连自己族群的利益都不在乎的人，您觉得会在意美国的利益？一般人会觉得国家大于天，爱国要高于爱自己？
我没觉得你什么都不做啊。 我只是说什么都不做只会唧唧歪歪的人很恶心。 我不理解啊。你既然觉得不强求一致，干嘛要说人家做的不好不对呢？
我记得VA那个很出名的高中搞了多样化的政策，高院就判了没歧视亚裔，不过我也不记得是哪个保守派法官站在自由派法官那边了
那些人脑子是不是不太好？ 还是她们有什么钱在我不懂的利益需要她们支持这么一个歧视性的法案？
跪太久成精神天使了？
完全无法理解（又）
结果出来了吗？