这个问题应该请Jaelynleaf小姐回答。她读过法学院，听过宪法学教授的课。我们这些理工科出身的没法比。 我其实一直也都有这样几个问题 1 独立宣言说的“to alter or to abolish“ government 是否包括使用暴力推翻政府。这个和叛国罪如何区分？ 2 第二修正案所说的“infringed”，和限制枪支的法律是否冲突？ 3 第二修正案和独立宣言是否可以合并在一起来解读？“the right of the people to keep and bear Arms”是否是用来“to alter or to abolish the government”呢？ Jaelynleaf，如果有空，帮着科普一下吧。我不是五毛，只是因为理工出生，对美国法律的理解不够深刻。
自己看吧，一条一条很详尽的 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-115https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title18/part1/chapter115&edition=prelim CHAPTER 115—TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES Sec. 2381. Treason. 2382. Misprision of treason. 2383. Rebellion or insurrection. 2384. Seditious conspiracy. 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government. 2386. Registration of certain organizations. 2387. Activities affecting armed forces generally. 2388. Activities affecting armed forces during war. 2389. Recruiting for service against United States. 2390. Enlistment to serve against United States
回复 13楼Perseus2000的帖子 刚学习了，明确了，这次跟“treason”无关。Treason 是理通外国，国家敌人的。 你的链接打开，写的 treason： Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
这个问题应该请Jaelynleaf小姐回答。她读过法学院，听过宪法学教授的课。我们这些理工科出身的没法比。 我其实一直也都有这样几个问题 1 独立宣言说的“to alter or to abolish“ government 是否包括使用暴力推翻政府。这个和叛国罪如何区分？ 2 第二修正案所说的“infringed”，和限制枪支的法律是否冲突？ 3 第二修正案和独立宣言是否可以合并在一起来解读？“the right of the people to keep and bear Arms”是否是用来“to alter or to abolish the government”呢？ Jaelynleaf，如果有空，帮着科普一下吧。我不是五毛，只是因为理工出生，对美国法律的理解不够深刻。 Haribough 发表于 2021-01-06 17:54
回复 13楼Perseus2000的帖子 刚学习了，明确了，这次跟“treason”无关。Treason 是理通外国，国家敌人的。 你的链接打开，写的 treason： Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. daysun 发表于 2021-01-06 18:00
看这条。Advocating overthrow of government Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof— Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction. If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction. As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons. (June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678, § 2, 70 Stat. 623; Pub. L. 87–486, June 19, 1962, 76 Stat. 103; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(N), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)
回复 13楼Perseus2000的帖子 刚学习了，明确了，这次跟“treason”无关。Treason 是理通外国，国家敌人的。 你的链接打开，写的 treason： Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. daysun 发表于 2021-01-06 18:00
另外在treason这里，US Enemies 可以是Foreign, or domestic 记得入籍时也是这样， The Naturalization Act of 1906 added the section of the oath requiring new citizens to defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; and bear true faith and allegiance to the same. The Oath acquired a standard text in 1929
回复 13楼Perseus2000的帖子 刚学习了，明确了，这次跟“treason”无关。Treason 是理通外国，国家敌人的。 你的链接打开，写的 treason： Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. daysun 发表于 2021-01-06 18:00
还有这里 18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection U.S. CodeNotesprev | next Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
说今天的行为是Treason太过， 说是rebellion也过头。 我觉得说 riot正好。 那些被捕的罪名嘛： destruction of property, illegal trespassing, breaking and entering, assault or battery of a police officer. 如果带着什么刀枪武器的，自然罪加一等。
说今天的行为是Treason太过， 说是rebellion也过头。 我觉得说 riot正好。 那些被捕的罪名嘛： destruction of property, illegal trespassing, breaking and entering, assault or battery of a police officer. 如果带着什么刀枪武器的，自然罪加一等。 surge 发表于 2021-01-06 21:42
说今天的行为是Treason太过， 说是rebellion也过头。 我觉得说 riot正好。 那些被捕的罪名嘛： destruction of property, illegal trespassing, breaking and entering, assault or battery of a police officer. 如果带着什么刀枪武器的，自然罪加一等。 surge 发表于 2021-01-06 21:42
国会代表宪法不能被别人占领，相应的罪是treason
请问楼上此言出处 让我等瞻仰一番啊
https://www.learnliberty.org/blog/the-declaration-of-independence-says-we-have-the-right-to-overthrow-the-government/
可以说啊，不可能因为有法官因为说了这个，判罪吧。你怕的是blm这些，被打。
楼主妹妹太迷信法律 应该业余修个法学院 看看高院里的黑历史
一个认识多年的美国老人曾经跟我说过几乎和你说的中间那段一样的话。现在很担心🐷党会用尽一切办法夺走人民手里最后的那点儿说话权……
我其实一直也都有这样几个问题
1 独立宣言说的“to alter or to abolish“ government 是否包括使用暴力推翻政府。这个和叛国罪如何区分？ 2 第二修正案所说的“infringed”，和限制枪支的法律是否冲突？ 3 第二修正案和独立宣言是否可以合并在一起来解读？“the right of the people to keep and bear Arms”是否是用来“to alter or to abolish the government”呢？
Jaelynleaf，如果有空，帮着科普一下吧。我不是五毛，只是因为理工出生，对美国法律的理解不够深刻。
自己看吧，一条一条很详尽的
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-115 https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title18/part1/chapter115&edition=prelim
CHAPTER 115—TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES Sec.
2381. Treason.
2382. Misprision of treason.
2383. Rebellion or insurrection.
2384. Seditious conspiracy.
2385. Advocating overthrow of Government.
2386. Registration of certain organizations.
2387. Activities affecting armed forces generally.
2388. Activities affecting armed forces during war.
2389. Recruiting for service against United States.
2390. Enlistment to serve against United States
敢不敢说All lives matter, 敢不敢说自己是Trump supporter。现在说自己是gay都比说是Trump supporter容易。太可怕了。
刚学习了，明确了，这次跟“treason”无关。Treason 是理通外国，国家敌人的。
你的链接打开，写的 treason： Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
你不用名枪暗箭 没有意思指定我 你知道我说的啥 正大光明点儿好
你这些问题罗嗦 所有的问题归一 政府是不是合法 是不是属于暴政 确定了这个问题 才能继续往下走
VA州的枪支管理将很快会修正出台
看这条。Advocating overthrow of government
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof— Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction. If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction. As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons. (June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678, § 2, 70 Stat. 623; Pub. L. 87–486, June 19, 1962, 76 Stat. 103; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(N), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)
另外在treason这里，US Enemies 可以是Foreign, or domestic 记得入籍时也是这样， The Naturalization Act of 1906 added the section of the oath requiring new citizens to defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; and bear true faith and allegiance to the same. The Oath acquired a standard text in 1929
还有这里
18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection U.S. Code Notes prev | next
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
我没有明枪暗箭。如果你觉得有什么不妥，我道歉。我不像你受过专业法律训练，说话可能不够严谨。
政府是否合法是由谁来确定呢？如果出现法律争议，比如我认为政府是不合法的，是否有权武装暴动呢？
另外，不说VA新出台的具体法案。目前，全国各州都有枪支管理法，联邦也有The Gun Control Act，这些法律是否违反第二修正案？这方面有没有debate？有没有权威的解释？
其实国会是可以开放给民众的，这没问题。 但是如果有警察警告不能进入，但依然使用暴力进入国会，就是treason了
和大名鼎鼎的J姐讨论问题，小心掉入东拉西扯的无底洞
其实我们现在困在家里这种情况，就和在洞里差不多啊，没什么特别安全可言。尤其是Anifa新纳粹支持的那帮人现在就在国会蹦跶呢。
看笑话倒是不至于，但是也说明要和跟党妈上了床的美国政府比厚黑，其实也很难啊呵呵。
本人在本版的帖子，纯属从各种网络图片消息总结感想，是非对错未经认证，不负任何刑事法律责任哈。
那如何界定是rebellion 还是 violent protest？
嗯，我说的大法官们指的是scalia‘s scotus
第二个问题，我一会好好看看gun law, 回答你关于枪控的问题 第一个问题，有个放之四海都通的规则。如你所惑谁确定合法? 请参阅美利坚建国历史。这个问题我只能点到为止。 法律是人制定解释的，光读条款，最多是个书记员。
如果没有猜错 你和版上一个ID叫Surge的同一人 不带你们这样换名字玩的 自己慢慢玩吧
腐败政府云云，现在的政府是执政党共和党川普当局，不是在野党。现在最腐败的就是川普及其党羽，他们否定了全部美国政府三权，只有伟大领袖穿普例外。
我讨厌川普， 替天行道也可以闯白宫吗？
你的想象力很丰富。我可以发誓，我不是surge，也跟他素不相识，信不信由你。
不过辩论讲究对事不对人。你就算对我有什么成见，不代表不能讨论宪法的问题。不过，知之为知之，不知为不知，不要故弄玄虚就好。
我终于把你主要的目的论点引出来了 有上网时间看看实际上庭辩论多好啊
对方估计会说：讨厌川普不是替天行道，反抗选举舞弊和司法不作为才是替天行道。 先假定一个不成立的事实，然后一切按照这个事情成立的前提来辩，无往不利
你的意思是法院就该是小人开的？逻辑啊逻辑。
什么是我的主要的目的论点？我不就是让你给我推荐几个经典的辩论案例，帮助解答我提的三个问题吗？当然，你要是能按照你的理解，总结一下更好。我毕竟不是学法律的，对法庭辩论的理解不如你的准确。
先看看你的假设成立与否 不要拿你的盾去挡你的矛 两手协调没两嘴皮的灵活
姐姐我要怎么样做你才能不找我麻烦。。。我求你了，就像川总的幕僚今天求他一样
哈哈，我被点名了。我也可以发誓，我不是Haribough，虽然我也是理工科出生，很欣赏他的数据分析水平。
这位Haribough， 我同意码字之虫的意见，和J姐辩论，经常会把你绕晕，不知所云。希望她不要认为我和码字之虫是同一个人。
好像目前J姐还没有断定你我是同一个人，她只表示过你我是一丘之貉
Preemptive Strike
网上匿名之下，如何证明两个ID不是一个人是个有趣的问题
最严格的只能通过技术手段吧。。。其实对活跃ID来说，某ID的发言风格是比较固定的，论坛personality是可观察的
说今天的行为是Treason太过， 说是rebellion也过头。 我觉得说 riot正好。
那些被捕的罪名嘛： destruction of property, illegal trespassing, breaking and entering, assault or battery of a police officer. 如果带着什么刀枪武器的，自然罪加一等。
那估计我和那个Haribough 都喜欢引用数据数字，让J姐误会了。
如果是riot，老川该当何罪？有没有现成的罪名？很想知道这种疯子的下场如何
警察明明是开了gate故意放他们进去的好吧。感觉又是中了这帮魔鬼的计谋了。你这么会造谣不去CNN只赚个五毛真是可惜了。
https://bit.ly/2JPzlqz
啊呀 这不是著名的铁锈带诗人吗 你要跟歪哥抢饭碗？
这个说明什么呢？这么多人，就这么几个警察，也不是riot police， 怎么挡？ 警力不足，很有可能放弃这道防线，到后面的防线集中。
我看他们就是认为自己高小商家，店铺一等
剛剛GOP whip 說了， shall be prosecuted as domestic terrorist
攻占政府当然不是宪法保护的。就算是扯远一点，拥枪是让你推翻暴政的。这个政府怎么暴政了？就因为你支持的人没赢么？另外，等你要推翻暴政的时候，那已经不存在什么合法不合法的问题了。那时候就是战争了。你死我活。
you have the right to overthrow a tyrant. 但是你不能要求这个暴政不打回来，对吧？你要推翻政府，那么政府就可以打你。你觉得这些川粉准备好跟政府对着干了吗？
其实没有那么复杂。你要么认可这么政府，那么就要遵守法律。要么要推翻政府，那么就准备好流血牺牲。你觉得这帮川粉是要走哪条路？现在政府还认他们是公民。如果他们要拿枪推翻，那么政府就不会这么客气了。
美国当然有言论自由。你说Asian lives matter 政府绝对不会找你的麻烦。 但是你不能要求别人不能抵制你。因为抵制你是别人的言论自由和权利。懂吗，孩子？
这位说的几个罪是唯一可行的，但这些罪名都判不了什么，基本就是当庭释放。
我讨厌你长了付欠揍的样儿，我可以揍你一顿吗？
那就干脆开门迎客啦？