11/6 更新， USPS承认，超过15万张选票没有Deliver, 其中1万2000张选票在那几个关键摇摆州 The Postal Service failed to deliver 150,000 completed ballots to polling stations before Election Day, including 12,000 in five of the states where the U.S. still eagerly awaits a final count. The number of mailed ballots the Postal Service did not deliver by Election Day is expected to grow as more data is released in the coming days. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/05/usps-late-ballots-election/ 再提醒一下，在30个州，选举日没收到的选票自动作废！ =============================== 旁边那个贴太乱了，我做了点research，整理了一下时间线，尽量加上具体新闻的链接，帮助大家了解查证整件事件的流程。。 零时做的research，肯定还漏掉了不少，欢迎大家补充 今年6月份，大选前几个月，川普任命Louis DeJoy为新的postmaster，主管邮政系统。这家伙是川普竞选的大金主 (mega donor) Louis DeJoy is a longtime Republican megadonor, and Trump ally (https://www.npr.org/2020/08/21/904346060/postmaster-general-faces-intense-scrutiny-amid-allegations-of-political-motives ) 他上台后干嘛了呢？以节约经费为名，开始大规模缩减员工工作时间和路线，并拆除邮政系统中的自动拣选机 https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7wk9z/the-post-office-is-deactivating-mail-sorting-machines-ahead-of-the-election he announced an "organizational realignment" at the agency, These changes included a reduction in employee overtime hours and the elimination of postal-sorting machines. The United States Postal Service isremoving mail sorting machines from facilities around the country without any official explanation or reason given, In many cases, these are the same machines that would be tasked with sorting ballots, 虽然之后被人举报国会紧急叫停，但他短短几个月里拆了多少台机器呢？ “USPS had only 4,824 mail sorting machines in October 2019” “USPS removed 711 sorting machines this year, new court documents show” https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/usps-removed-711-sorting-machines/index.html全国4800多台自动拣选机中的700多台被拆除。。。而这些机器每台都可以分拣“36,000 pieces of mail per hour, 24/7,” 当面对国会听证问讯的时候，Louis极其强硬表示不会把已经拆除的机器重新装回去 “There''s no intention to do that, they''re not needed, sir,” DeJoy said when asked by Sen. Gary Peters, D-Mich., whether the machines removed under his watch would be brought back.” https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/21/usps-chief-dejoy-no-intention-to-bring-back-removed-mail-sorting-machines.html 除了大规模拆自动分拣机，Louis开始减少邮政员工的整体工作时间。。包括减少收取邮件的频率，减少late trips，缩短营业时间，关停网点，强迫到点下班/不许加班， Among the specifics are major changes to operations, such as leaving mail at delivery centers if it might delay carriers, ending extra and late trips (which help ensure all mail moves swiftly) and limiting “park points” where carriers park their vehicles and walk to make deliveries. USPS加快了拆除/减少邮箱的工作 USPS removes mail collection boxes and reduces post office hours as critics accuse Trump administration of voter suppression https://www.abc57.com/news/usps-removes-mail-collection-boxes-and-reduces-post-office-hours-as-critics-accuse-trump-administration-of-voter-suppression被媒体曝光后，USPS被迫宣布将暂停在西部各州拆除邮箱。(但貌似东部，中部的拆除继续？没找到后续报导） USPS will stop removing letter collection boxes in Western states until after the election https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/14/politics/usps-removes-letter-collection-boxes-reduces-post-office-operating-hours/index.html 随着员工工作时间缩减和机器的拆除，USPS邮件准点率开始下降。。DeJoy, a major donor to Republicans and committees supporting Trump’s reelection, admitted in the hearing that “certainly there was a slowdownin the mail when our production did not meet the schedule.” USPS自己承认，有46个州，邮寄选票在选举日可能无法按时送到 USPS warned 46 states that it can''''''''''''''''t guarantee that all mail-in-ballots would arrive on time to be counted https://www.businessinsider.com/usps-warned-states-mail-ballots-may-not-arrive-time-2020-8
面对这个问题，民主党众议院通过提案，紧急拨款250亿美元给美国邮政，以应对即将到来的美国大选。。https://www.wsj.com/articles/house-set-to-vote-on-bill-barring-postal-service-cuts-11598088602 但川普强烈反对拨款 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/white-house-rejects-house-bill-for-emergency-postal-service-aid-2020-08-23 White House chief of staff Mark Meadows rejected the legislation the House passed late Saturday to provide $25 billion and block operational changes by Postmaster General Louis DeJoy. Trump on Thursday again came out against that proposal on the grounds that it would help the USPS handle mail-in ballots, which he wrongfully believes would lead to voter fraud. 250亿美元的紧急拨款最终被卡在了共和党控制的参议院 https://www.vox.com/2020/9/10/21429678/senate-stimulus-vote 这次大选有6500万张邮寄选票 （https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/03/us/elections/mail-ballot-counting-vote.html) 大选当天的准时率才80% （https://www.cbsnews.com/news/usps-postal-service-delivery-rates-slower/） 在一些关键摇摆州，邮件准时率更是低的令人发指 https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/04/2020-presidential-election-postal-data-shows-ballot-delivery-rate.html in South Florida, just 85.12% of the mail-in ballots were delivered on Election Day. In central Pennsylvania, just 61.3% of the mail-ballots in the postal system were delivered on time In Philadelphia, slightly more than 66% of the mail-in ballots had been delivered on Election Day. In Atlanta 82.2% percent of the mail-in ballots were delivered on Election Day, the court filing shows. Detroit postal facilities reported less than 79% percent of mail-in ballots delivered that day. In Greensboro, North Carolina, 72.9% percent of the mail-in ballots were delivered on Tuesday. And in Lakeland, Wisconsin, slightly less than 77% of such ballots were delivered, the filing revealed. 邮件没有准时投递会有啥影响？ There are 30 states that require absentee ballots be received by Election Day to be counted. 对于这30个州的选民来说，选举当天没受到的选票直接作废 因为担心邮寄delay，很多州都准备给邮寄选票多留点时间。比如说关键摇摆州WI 想多要求几天点票，结果直接被最高法院给否了。Last week, the Supreme Court quashed a Wisconsin court decision that would have given mail-in ballots an additional six days after Election Day to be counted. 最高法院5:3判的，这5票是哪方的法官投的？不用猜了吧？呵呵。。 这直接造成了，哪怕是选举日前1-2天寄出的选票，也会因为无法及时送到而被作废 "If you put your ballot in the mail yesterday or today and you live in a state where the deadline is tomorrow, your vote probably isn''t going to get counted," 法官要求邮局在选举日当天对一些地区进行额外的检查，提高选票投递准时率，被无视 USPS disregards judge''s order to sweep 12 postal districts https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/03/election-ballot-delays-usps/ 再看看几个摇摆州最终开票的差距，这是多大影响？ 这时候川普在干嘛呢？ “Trump says hopefully states won''t be allowed to count ballots after Election Day, which is a normal part of the electoral process” https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-hopes-states-wont-allowed-count-ballots-after-election-day-2020-10不光延误的选票作废，按时寄到的选票，他也不希望点完。 这算不算是系统性舞弊？ 现在川普这就叫是作弊了都赢不了！
回复 3楼bingmi的帖子 You may request an absentee ballot at any time before the deadlines, but ballots will be mailed out beginning on or about September 18, 2020https://www.ny.gov/early-voting-and-absentee-voting-mail-or-dropbox 纽约州邮寄选票9月底就开始寄出去了，到11月份选举，中间隔了多久？ 几百上千万选民基数，其中有些人在寄出选票后因为种种原因死了，这难道不可能？不正常？ 除了脑子进水的川粉，真有人会相信民主党需要在纽约那种深蓝地方作弊吗？
补充几点： 选举开始前几个月，民主党开始讨论在covid期间in person选举的安全性。毕竟covid还是来势汹汹，我们也需要保证选举工作者和志愿者的安全。很多选举志愿者都是老年人，他们自己也担心健康问题。 于是民主党提到，可以采用mail in投票方式。减少covid风险。 川普立刻就跳了，大骂mail in ballot会造成fraud。完全无视几点实事： 第一，mail in ballot已经存在几十年了。海外军人都是用mail in ballot方式投票。 第二，川普家人自己也是用mail in ballot方式从纽约投票。 第三，川普在喷absentee ballot没事，但是mail in ballot是fraud。但是事实是mail in ballot和absentee ballot根本就是同一回事。 记得，川普的白人base是不怕不相信covid的。所以他们会采用in person voting。 于是乎，共和党开始疯狂压制mail in ballot因为他们知道mail in ballot大部分是民主党。 于是乎lz提到的各种usps闹剧出现了。 于是乎，在某些州，民主党上诉阻止mail in ballot在election date开始之前提前数票。在某些州，民主党上诉阻止mail in ballot在election date之后被数票。 基本上尽可能阻止mail in ballot 被数票。 以Florida为例，虽然是摇摆州，FL允许mail in ballot提前数。这就是为什么FL结果出的那么早。FL并且规定mail in ballot必须在election date下午收到。过期不收。 宾州政策是mail in ballot截止日期是election date之后三天（不对请指正）。 这个rule和党派啊根本无关，多年来都是这么要求的。现在川普的base狂跳，说好的law and order呢。 最后再加一点，现在狂热的川普base在川普已经领先的地方大喊：stop counting！在川普落后的地方大喊：keep counting！ 真是一言难尽啊！
补充几点： 选举开始前几个月，民主党开始讨论在covid期间in person选举的安全性。毕竟covid还是来势汹汹，我们也需要保证选举工作者和志愿者的安全。很多选举志愿者都是老年人，他们自己也担心健康问题。 于是民主党提到，可以采用mail in投票方式。减少covid风险。 川普立刻就跳了，大骂mail in ballot会造成fraud。完全无视几点实事： 第一，mail in ballot已经存在几十年了。海外军人都是用mail in ballot方式投票。 第二，川普家人自己也是用mail in ballot方式从纽约投票。 第三，川普在喷absentee ballot没事，但是mail in ballot是fraud。但是事实是mail in ballot和absentee ballot根本就是同一回事。 记得，川普的白人base是不怕不相信covid的。所以他们会采用in person voting。 于是乎，共和党开始疯狂压制mail in ballot因为他们知道mail in ballot大部分是民主党。 于是乎lz提到的各种usps闹剧出现了。 于是乎，在某些州，民主党上诉阻止mail in ballot在election date开始之前提前数票。在某些州，民主党上诉阻止mail in ballot在election date之后被数票。 基本上尽可能阻止mail in ballot 被数票。 以Florida为例，虽然是摇摆州，FL允许mail in ballot提前数。这就是为什么FL结果出的那么早。FL并且规定mail in ballot必须在election date下午收到。过期不收。 宾州政策是mail in ballot截止日期是election date之后三天（不对请指正）。 这个rule和党派啊根本无关，多年来都是这么要求的。现在川普的base狂跳，说好的law and order呢。 最后再加一点，现在狂热的川普base在川普已经领先的地方大喊：stop counting！在川普落后的地方大喊：keep counting！ 真是一言难尽啊！ DonutNoodle 发表于 2020-11-05 14:49
“于是乎，在某些州，民主党上诉阻止mail in ballot在election date开始之前提前数票。在某些州，民主党上诉阻止mail in ballot在election date之后被数票。“ 你打错了 是GOP控制的州议会就不允许提前数票 然后Trump的律师团到处sue允许提前数票的州。。。比如北卡。。。
“于是乎，在某些州，民主党上诉阻止mail in ballot在election date开始之前提前数票。在某些州，民主党上诉阻止mail in ballot在election date之后被数票。“ 你打错了 是GOP控制的州议会就不允许提前数票 然后Trump的律师团到处sue允许提前数票的州。。。比如北卡。。。
回复 3楼bingmi的帖子 You may request an absentee ballot at any time before the deadlines, but ballots will be mailed out beginning on or about September 18, 2020https://www.ny.gov/early-voting-and-absentee-voting-mail-or-dropbox 纽约州邮寄选票9月底就开始寄出去了，到11月份选举，中间隔了多久？ 几百上千万选民基数，其中有些人在寄出选票后因为种种原因死了，这难道不可能？不正常？ 除了脑子进水的川粉，真有人会相信民主党需要在纽约那种深蓝地方作弊吗？ Namama 发表于 2020-11-05 14:43
不是这俩月才死的，都已经死好几年了: https://www.nypost.com/2020/11/02/dead-people-caught-voting-in-nyc-elections-records-show/amp/ But there’s a problem: Frances Reckhow, who was born on July 6, 1915, and would be 105 today, died in 2012, according to an obituary filed with the Staten Island Advance. An absentee ballot was also mailed from a Gertrude Nizzere, also a registered Democrat, who was born on Feb. 7, 1919, and would be 101 today. The BOE said someone identifying as Gertrude Nizzere, with an address of Shore Road in Brooklyn, requested an absentee ballot in September. Republicans discovered that Nizzere died on July 4, 2016, and is buried in Calverton cemetery.
旁边那个贴太乱了，我做了点research，整理了一下时间线，尽量加上具体新闻的链接，帮助大家了解查证整件事件的流程。。 零时做的research，肯定还漏掉了不少，欢迎大家补充 今年6月份，大选前几个月，川普任命Louis DeJoy为新的postmaster，主管邮政系统 Louis DeJoy is a longtime Republican megadonor, and Trump ally (https://www.npr.org/2020/08/21/904346060/postmaster-general-faces-intense-scrutiny-amid-allegations-of-political-motives ) 他上台后干嘛了呢？以节约经费为名，开始大规模缩减员工工作时间和路线，并拆除邮政系统中的自动拣选机 https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7wk9z/the-post-office-is-deactivating-mail-sorting-machines-ahead-of-the-election he announced an "organizational realignment" at the agency, These changes included a reduction in employee overtime hours and the elimination of postal-sorting machines. The United States Postal Service isremoving mail sorting machines from facilities around the country without any official explanation or reason given, In many cases, these are the same machines that would be tasked with sorting ballots, 虽然之后被人举报国会紧急叫停，但他短短几个月里拆了多少台机器呢？ “USPS had only 4,824 mail sorting machines in October 2019” “USPS removed 711 sorting machines this year, new court documents show” https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/usps-removed-711-sorting-machines/index.html全国4800多台自动拣选机中的700多台被拆除。。。而这些机器每台都可以分拣“36,000 pieces of mail per hour, 24/7,” 当面对国会听证问讯的时候，Louis极其强硬表示不会把已经拆除的机器重新装回去 “There''''s no intention to do that, they''''re not needed, sir,” DeJoy said when asked by Sen. Gary Peters, D-Mich., whether the machines removed under his watch would be brought back.” https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/21/usps-chief-dejoy-no-intention-to-bring-back-removed-mail-sorting-machines.html 随着员工工作时间缩减和机器的拆除，USPS邮件准点率开始下降。。DeJoy, a major donor to Republicans and committees supporting Trump’s reelection, admitted in the hearing that “certainly there was a slowdownin the mail when our production did not meet the schedule.” 面对这个问题，民主党众议院通过提案，紧急拨款250亿美元给美国邮政，以应对即将到来的美国大选。。https://www.wsj.com/articles/house-set-to-vote-on-bill-barring-postal-service-cuts-11598088602 但川普强烈反对拨款 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/white-house-rejects-house-bill-for-emergency-postal-service-aid-2020-08-23 White House chief of staff Mark Meadows rejected the legislation the House passed late Saturday to provide $25 billion and block operational changes by Postmaster General Louis DeJoy. Trump on Thursday again came out against that proposal on the grounds that it would help the USPS handle mail-in ballots, which he wrongfully believes would lead to voter fraud. 250亿美元的紧急拨款最终被卡在了共和党控制的参议院 https://www.vox.com/2020/9/10/21429678/senate-stimulus-vote 这次大选有6500万张邮寄选票 （https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/03/us/elections/mail-ballot-counting-vote.html) 大选当天的准时率才80% （https://www.cbsnews.com/news/usps-postal-service-delivery-rates-slower/） 在一些关键摇摆州，邮件准时率更是低的令人发指 https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/04/2020-presidential-election-postal-data-shows-ballot-delivery-rate.html in South Florida, just 85.12% of the mail-in ballots were delivered on Election Day. In central Pennsylvania, just 61.3% of the mail-ballots in the postal system were delivered on time In Philadelphia, slightly more than 66% of the mail-in ballots had been delivered on Election Day. In Atlanta 82.2% percent of the mail-in ballots were delivered on Election Day, the court filing shows. Detroit postal facilities reported less than 79% percent of mail-in ballots delivered that day. In Greensboro, North Carolina, 72.9% percent of the mail-in ballots were delivered on Tuesday. And in Lakeland, Wisconsin, slightly less than 77% of such ballots were delivered, the filing revealed. 邮件没有准时投递会有啥影响？ There are 30 states that require absentee ballots be received by Election Day to be counted. 对于这30个州的选民来说，选举当天没受到的选票直接作废 因为担心邮寄delay，很多州都准备给邮寄选票多留点时间。比如说关键摇摆州WI 想多要求几天点票，结果直接被最高法院给否了。Last week, the Supreme Court quashed a Wisconsin court decision that would have given mail-in ballots an additional six days after Election Day to be counted. 最高法院5:3判的，这5票是哪方的法官投的？不用猜了吧？呵呵。。 这直接造成了，哪怕是选举日前1-2天寄出的选票，也会因为无法及时送到而被作废 "If you put your ballot in the mail yesterday or today and you live in a state where the deadline is tomorrow, your vote probably isn''''t going to get counted," 法官要求邮局在选举日当天对一些地区进行额外的检查，提高选票投递准时率，被无视 USPS disregards judge''''s order to sweep 12 postal districts https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/03/election-ballot-delays-usps/ 再看看几个摇摆州最终开票的差距，这是多大影响？ 这时候川普在干嘛呢？ “Trump says ''''hopefully'''' states won''''t be allowed to count ballots after Election Day, which is a normal part of the electoral process” https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-hopes-states-wont-allowed-count-ballots-after-election-day-2020-10不光延误的选票作废，按时寄到的选票，他也不希望点完。 这算不算是系统性舞弊？ 现在川普这就叫是作弊了都赢不了！ Namama 发表于 2020-11-05 14:30
旁边那个贴太乱了，我做了点research，整理了一下时间线，尽量加上具体新闻的链接，帮助大家了解查证整件事件的流程。。 零时做的research，肯定还漏掉了不少，欢迎大家补充 今年6月份，大选前几个月，川普任命Louis DeJoy为新的postmaster，主管邮政系统 Louis DeJoy is a longtime Republican megadonor, and Trump ally (https://www.npr.org/2020/08/21/904346060/postmaster-general-faces-intense-scrutiny-amid-allegations-of-political-motives ) 他上台后干嘛了呢？以节约经费为名，开始大规模缩减员工工作时间和路线，并拆除邮政系统中的自动拣选机 https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7wk9z/the-post-office-is-deactivating-mail-sorting-machines-ahead-of-the-election he announced an "organizational realignment" at the agency, These changes included a reduction in employee overtime hours and the elimination of postal-sorting machines. The United States Postal Service isremoving mail sorting machines from facilities around the country without any official explanation or reason given, In many cases, these are the same machines that would be tasked with sorting ballots, 虽然之后被人举报国会紧急叫停，但他短短几个月里拆了多少台机器呢？ “USPS had only 4,824 mail sorting machines in October 2019” “USPS removed 711 sorting machines this year, new court documents show” https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/usps-removed-711-sorting-machines/index.html全国4800多台自动拣选机中的700多台被拆除。。。而这些机器每台都可以分拣“36,000 pieces of mail per hour, 24/7,” 当面对国会听证问讯的时候，Louis极其强硬表示不会把已经拆除的机器重新装回去 “There''''s no intention to do that, they''''re not needed, sir,” DeJoy said when asked by Sen. Gary Peters, D-Mich., whether the machines removed under his watch would be brought back.” https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/21/usps-chief-dejoy-no-intention-to-bring-back-removed-mail-sorting-machines.html 随着员工工作时间缩减和机器的拆除，USPS邮件准点率开始下降。。DeJoy, a major donor to Republicans and committees supporting Trump’s reelection, admitted in the hearing that “certainly there was a slowdownin the mail when our production did not meet the schedule.” 面对这个问题，民主党众议院通过提案，紧急拨款250亿美元给美国邮政，以应对即将到来的美国大选。。https://www.wsj.com/articles/house-set-to-vote-on-bill-barring-postal-service-cuts-11598088602 但川普强烈反对拨款 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/white-house-rejects-house-bill-for-emergency-postal-service-aid-2020-08-23 White House chief of staff Mark Meadows rejected the legislation the House passed late Saturday to provide $25 billion and block operational changes by Postmaster General Louis DeJoy. Trump on Thursday again came out against that proposal on the grounds that it would help the USPS handle mail-in ballots, which he wrongfully believes would lead to voter fraud. 250亿美元的紧急拨款最终被卡在了共和党控制的参议院 https://www.vox.com/2020/9/10/21429678/senate-stimulus-vote 这次大选有6500万张邮寄选票 （https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/03/us/elections/mail-ballot-counting-vote.html) 大选当天的准时率才80% （https://www.cbsnews.com/news/usps-postal-service-delivery-rates-slower/） 在一些关键摇摆州，邮件准时率更是低的令人发指 https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/04/2020-presidential-election-postal-data-shows-ballot-delivery-rate.html in South Florida, just 85.12% of the mail-in ballots were delivered on Election Day. In central Pennsylvania, just 61.3% of the mail-ballots in the postal system were delivered on time In Philadelphia, slightly more than 66% of the mail-in ballots had been delivered on Election Day. In Atlanta 82.2% percent of the mail-in ballots were delivered on Election Day, the court filing shows. Detroit postal facilities reported less than 79% percent of mail-in ballots delivered that day. In Greensboro, North Carolina, 72.9% percent of the mail-in ballots were delivered on Tuesday. And in Lakeland, Wisconsin, slightly less than 77% of such ballots were delivered, the filing revealed. 邮件没有准时投递会有啥影响？ There are 30 states that require absentee ballots be received by Election Day to be counted. 对于这30个州的选民来说，选举当天没受到的选票直接作废 因为担心邮寄delay，很多州都准备给邮寄选票多留点时间。比如说关键摇摆州WI 想多要求几天点票，结果直接被最高法院给否了。Last week, the Supreme Court quashed a Wisconsin court decision that would have given mail-in ballots an additional six days after Election Day to be counted. 最高法院5:3判的，这5票是哪方的法官投的？不用猜了吧？呵呵。。 这直接造成了，哪怕是选举日前1-2天寄出的选票，也会因为无法及时送到而被作废 "If you put your ballot in the mail yesterday or today and you live in a state where the deadline is tomorrow, your vote probably isn''''t going to get counted," 法官要求邮局在选举日当天对一些地区进行额外的检查，提高选票投递准时率，被无视 USPS disregards judge''''s order to sweep 12 postal districts https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/03/election-ballot-delays-usps/ 再看看几个摇摆州最终开票的差距，这是多大影响？ 这时候川普在干嘛呢？ “Trump says ''''hopefully'''' states won''''t be allowed to count ballots after Election Day, which is a normal part of the electoral process” https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-hopes-states-wont-allowed-count-ballots-after-election-day-2020-10不光延误的选票作废，按时寄到的选票，他也不希望点完。 这算不算是系统性舞弊？ 现在川普这就叫是作弊了都赢不了！ Namama 发表于 2020-11-05 14:30
旁边那个贴太乱了，我做了点research，整理了一下时间线，尽量加上具体新闻的链接，帮助大家了解查证整件事件的流程。。 零时做的research，肯定还漏掉了不少，欢迎大家补充 今年6月份，大选前几个月，川普任命Louis DeJoy为新的postmaster，主管邮政系统 Louis DeJoy is a longtime Republican megadonor, and Trump ally (https://www.npr.org/2020/08/21/904346060/postmaster-general-faces-intense-scrutiny-amid-allegations-of-political-motives ) 他上台后干嘛了呢？以节约经费为名，开始大规模缩减员工工作时间和路线，并拆除邮政系统中的自动拣选机 https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7wk9z/the-post-office-is-deactivating-mail-sorting-machines-ahead-of-the-election he announced an "organizational realignment" at the agency, These changes included a reduction in employee overtime hours and the elimination of postal-sorting machines. The United States Postal Service isremoving mail sorting machines from facilities around the country without any official explanation or reason given, In many cases, these are the same machines that would be tasked with sorting ballots, 虽然之后被人举报国会紧急叫停，但他短短几个月里拆了多少台机器呢？ “USPS had only 4,824 mail sorting machines in October 2019” “USPS removed 711 sorting machines this year, new court documents show” https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/usps-removed-711-sorting-machines/index.html全国4800多台自动拣选机中的700多台被拆除。。。而这些机器每台都可以分拣“36,000 pieces of mail per hour, 24/7,” 当面对国会听证问讯的时候，Louis极其强硬表示不会把已经拆除的机器重新装回去 “There''''s no intention to do that, they''''re not needed, sir,” DeJoy said when asked by Sen. Gary Peters, D-Mich., whether the machines removed under his watch would be brought back.” https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/21/usps-chief-dejoy-no-intention-to-bring-back-removed-mail-sorting-machines.html 随着员工工作时间缩减和机器的拆除，USPS邮件准点率开始下降。。DeJoy, a major donor to Republicans and committees supporting Trump’s reelection, admitted in the hearing that “certainly there was a slowdownin the mail when our production did not meet the schedule.” 面对这个问题，民主党众议院通过提案，紧急拨款250亿美元给美国邮政，以应对即将到来的美国大选。。https://www.wsj.com/articles/house-set-to-vote-on-bill-barring-postal-service-cuts-11598088602 但川普强烈反对拨款 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/white-house-rejects-house-bill-for-emergency-postal-service-aid-2020-08-23 White House chief of staff Mark Meadows rejected the legislation the House passed late Saturday to provide $25 billion and block operational changes by Postmaster General Louis DeJoy. Trump on Thursday again came out against that proposal on the grounds that it would help the USPS handle mail-in ballots, which he wrongfully believes would lead to voter fraud. 250亿美元的紧急拨款最终被卡在了共和党控制的参议院 https://www.vox.com/2020/9/10/21429678/senate-stimulus-vote 这次大选有6500万张邮寄选票 （https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/03/us/elections/mail-ballot-counting-vote.html) 大选当天的准时率才80% （https://www.cbsnews.com/news/usps-postal-service-delivery-rates-slower/） 在一些关键摇摆州，邮件准时率更是低的令人发指 https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/04/2020-presidential-election-postal-data-shows-ballot-delivery-rate.html in South Florida, just 85.12% of the mail-in ballots were delivered on Election Day. In central Pennsylvania, just 61.3% of the mail-ballots in the postal system were delivered on time In Philadelphia, slightly more than 66% of the mail-in ballots had been delivered on Election Day. In Atlanta 82.2% percent of the mail-in ballots were delivered on Election Day, the court filing shows. Detroit postal facilities reported less than 79% percent of mail-in ballots delivered that day. In Greensboro, North Carolina, 72.9% percent of the mail-in ballots were delivered on Tuesday. And in Lakeland, Wisconsin, slightly less than 77% of such ballots were delivered, the filing revealed. 邮件没有准时投递会有啥影响？ There are 30 states that require absentee ballots be received by Election Day to be counted. 对于这30个州的选民来说，选举当天没受到的选票直接作废 因为担心邮寄delay，很多州都准备给邮寄选票多留点时间。比如说关键摇摆州WI 想多要求几天点票，结果直接被最高法院给否了。Last week, the Supreme Court quashed a Wisconsin court decision that would have given mail-in ballots an additional six days after Election Day to be counted. 最高法院5:3判的，这5票是哪方的法官投的？不用猜了吧？呵呵。。 这直接造成了，哪怕是选举日前1-2天寄出的选票，也会因为无法及时送到而被作废 "If you put your ballot in the mail yesterday or today and you live in a state where the deadline is tomorrow, your vote probably isn''''t going to get counted," 法官要求邮局在选举日当天对一些地区进行额外的检查，提高选票投递准时率，被无视 USPS disregards judge''''s order to sweep 12 postal districts https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/03/election-ballot-delays-usps/ 再看看几个摇摆州最终开票的差距，这是多大影响？ 这时候川普在干嘛呢？ “Trump says ''''hopefully'''' states won''''t be allowed to count ballots after Election Day, which is a normal part of the electoral process” https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-hopes-states-wont-allowed-count-ballots-after-election-day-2020-10不光延误的选票作废，按时寄到的选票，他也不希望点完。 这算不算是系统性舞弊？ 现在川普这就叫是作弊了都赢不了！ Namama 发表于 2020-11-05 14:30
旁边那个贴太乱了，我做了点research，整理了一下时间线，尽量加上具体新闻的链接，帮助大家了解查证整件事件的流程。。 零时做的research，肯定还漏掉了不少，欢迎大家补充 今年6月份，大选前几个月，川普任命Louis DeJoy为新的postmaster，主管邮政系统 Louis DeJoy is a longtime Republican megadonor, and Trump ally (https://www.npr.org/2020/08/21/904346060/postmaster-general-faces-intense-scrutiny-amid-allegations-of-political-motives ) 他上台后干嘛了呢？以节约经费为名，开始大规模缩减员工工作时间和路线，并拆除邮政系统中的自动拣选机 https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7wk9z/the-post-office-is-deactivating-mail-sorting-machines-ahead-of-the-election he announced an "organizational realignment" at the agency, These changes included a reduction in employee overtime hours and the elimination of postal-sorting machines. The United States Postal Service isremoving mail sorting machines from facilities around the country without any official explanation or reason given, In many cases, these are the same machines that would be tasked with sorting ballots, 虽然之后被人举报国会紧急叫停，但他短短几个月里拆了多少台机器呢？ “USPS had only 4,824 mail sorting machines in October 2019” “USPS removed 711 sorting machines this year, new court documents show” https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/usps-removed-711-sorting-machines/index.html全国4800多台自动拣选机中的700多台被拆除。。。而这些机器每台都可以分拣“36,000 pieces of mail per hour, 24/7,” 当面对国会听证问讯的时候，Louis极其强硬表示不会把已经拆除的机器重新装回去 “There''''s no intention to do that, they''''re not needed, sir,” DeJoy said when asked by Sen. Gary Peters, D-Mich., whether the machines removed under his watch would be brought back.” https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/21/usps-chief-dejoy-no-intention-to-bring-back-removed-mail-sorting-machines.html 随着员工工作时间缩减和机器的拆除，USPS邮件准点率开始下降。。DeJoy, a major donor to Republicans and committees supporting Trump’s reelection, admitted in the hearing that “certainly there was a slowdownin the mail when our production did not meet the schedule.” 面对这个问题，民主党众议院通过提案，紧急拨款250亿美元给美国邮政，以应对即将到来的美国大选。。https://www.wsj.com/articles/house-set-to-vote-on-bill-barring-postal-service-cuts-11598088602 但川普强烈反对拨款 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/white-house-rejects-house-bill-for-emergency-postal-service-aid-2020-08-23 White House chief of staff Mark Meadows rejected the legislation the House passed late Saturday to provide $25 billion and block operational changes by Postmaster General Louis DeJoy. Trump on Thursday again came out against that proposal on the grounds that it would help the USPS handle mail-in ballots, which he wrongfully believes would lead to voter fraud. 250亿美元的紧急拨款最终被卡在了共和党控制的参议院 https://www.vox.com/2020/9/10/21429678/senate-stimulus-vote 这次大选有6500万张邮寄选票 （https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/03/us/elections/mail-ballot-counting-vote.html) 大选当天的准时率才80% （https://www.cbsnews.com/news/usps-postal-service-delivery-rates-slower/） 在一些关键摇摆州，邮件准时率更是低的令人发指 https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/04/2020-presidential-election-postal-data-shows-ballot-delivery-rate.html in South Florida, just 85.12% of the mail-in ballots were delivered on Election Day. In central Pennsylvania, just 61.3% of the mail-ballots in the postal system were delivered on time In Philadelphia, slightly more than 66% of the mail-in ballots had been delivered on Election Day. In Atlanta 82.2% percent of the mail-in ballots were delivered on Election Day, the court filing shows. Detroit postal facilities reported less than 79% percent of mail-in ballots delivered that day. In Greensboro, North Carolina, 72.9% percent of the mail-in ballots were delivered on Tuesday. And in Lakeland, Wisconsin, slightly less than 77% of such ballots were delivered, the filing revealed. 邮件没有准时投递会有啥影响？ There are 30 states that require absentee ballots be received by Election Day to be counted. 对于这30个州的选民来说，选举当天没受到的选票直接作废 因为担心邮寄delay，很多州都准备给邮寄选票多留点时间。比如说关键摇摆州WI 想多要求几天点票，结果直接被最高法院给否了。Last week, the Supreme Court quashed a Wisconsin court decision that would have given mail-in ballots an additional six days after Election Day to be counted. 最高法院5:3判的，这5票是哪方的法官投的？不用猜了吧？呵呵。。 这直接造成了，哪怕是选举日前1-2天寄出的选票，也会因为无法及时送到而被作废 "If you put your ballot in the mail yesterday or today and you live in a state where the deadline is tomorrow, your vote probably isn''''t going to get counted," 法官要求邮局在选举日当天对一些地区进行额外的检查，提高选票投递准时率，被无视 USPS disregards judge''''s order to sweep 12 postal districts https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/03/election-ballot-delays-usps/ 再看看几个摇摆州最终开票的差距，这是多大影响？ 这时候川普在干嘛呢？ “Trump says ''''hopefully'''' states won''''t be allowed to count ballots after Election Day, which is a normal part of the electoral process” https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-hopes-states-wont-allowed-count-ballots-after-election-day-2020-10不光延误的选票作废，按时寄到的选票，他也不希望点完。 这算不算是系统性舞弊？ 现在川普这就叫是作弊了都赢不了！ Namama 发表于 2020-11-05 14:30
另外加一点，原帖暗示supreme court夹杂私货不给wisconsin投票extension 原帖内容： ”因为担心邮寄delay，很多州都准备给邮寄选票多留点时间。比如说关键摇摆州WI 想多要求几天点票，结果直接被最高法院给否了。Last week, the Supreme Court quashed a Wisconsin court decision that would have given mail-in ballots an additional six days after Election Day to be counted. 最高法院5:3判的，这5票是哪方的法官投的？不用猜了吧？呵呵。。“ 实际上WI民主党被拒是因为他们接近大选才要求临时改变州内选举的规则。为什么不写supreme court的理由，而是直接下partisan定论？ https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/26/supreme-court-wont-extend-wisconsin-ballot-deadline-432656
supreme court同意另外一个摇摆州pennsylvania的extension又怎么解释？大选后PA三天内收到的，即使没有postmark的ballot也算有效投票。那时候针对PA的判决4-4。也就是说有一个投了PA却拒绝WI的大法官认为WI没有merit Pennsylvania has been the subject of scrutiny for days leading up to the election as a deadlocked U.S. Supreme Court declined to overturn the Pennsylvania Supreme Court’s decision to extend the mail-in ballot deadline. That decision, in favor of requests made by the Secretary of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Kathy Boockvar, allowed ballots received by Nov. 6 to be counted unless a “preponderance of the evidence” showed that a ballot was mailed after Election Day. The ruling by Pennsylvania’s highest court also stipulated that ballots without a time-stamped postmark received up to three days after the election could be counted.“Ballots received within this period that lack a postmark or other proof of mailing, or for which the postmark or other proof of mailing is illegible, should enjoy a presumption that they were mailed by Election Day,” the ruling from the Pennsylvania court said. The Supreme Court reached a 4-4 tie in October after Republicans requested that the Court put the Pennsylvania decision on hold over concerns of ballot integrity. In anticipation of further litigation over the matter, Boockvar said that any ballots received after Election Day would be counted but that they would remain segregated from the rest of the count if a challenge to their validity is upheld. https://foxbaltimore.com/news/nation-world/supreme-court-decision-on-pennsylvania-ballots-now-looms-large partisan argument最后的结果跟identity politics一样，会让选民越来越两极化
所以我觉得民主党造票还是有的，至于川粉一上来就几十万张选票从后备箱里拿出来就是智商问题了，共和党故意让邮局减员delay投递，民主党多发mail in ballot，一个人多发几次，反正民主党只要claim只算最后一次的，其实前面的怎么保证都扔掉也是个问题，在选举这个问题上，美国两党都很ugly，但是像川普这么乱叫就是撒泼打滚了，他没抓到民主党的证据，他操控USPS的事却被人抓了个现行
第一，mail in ballot不是民主党发的啊！ballot不是你想发，想发就能发的啊…都是要注册要申请的啊 第二，一个选民不可以收到多张mail in ballot的啊。一人一张的啊！每张都是有barcode有tracking的啊。 DonutNoodle 发表于 2020-11-05 16:53
回复 73楼urthur的帖子 PA和WI， 两个case的区别，主要就是所谓的州选举权。。 The federal district court, Roberts wrote in a concurring opinion, "intervened in the thick of election season" to block a state law. He said the case represented "federal intrusion on state lawmaking processes." The Pennsylvania case, on the other hand, concerned a decision by the state''s highest court. Roberts said that decision "implicated the authority of state courts to apply their own constitutions to election regulations." "Different bodies of law and different precedents govern these two situations and require, in these particular circumstances, that we allow the modification of election rules in Pennsylvania but not Wisconsin," Roberts wrote. 基本上就是认为一个州如何投票，由该州自己决定，这不是联邦该管的事。。 PA的判决是州法院做的，所以最高法院承认其在这件事上的权威性。。 WI的判决是联邦法院做的，所以最高法院认为联邦法院介入州选举不妥，所以驳回。。 其实也就Roberts一个人有这看法 "The only justice to view these cases differently than the ones from Pennsylvania was the Chief Justice, for whom there''s apparently a categorical difference between a state Supreme Dourt extending election deadlines, which he refused to upend, and a federal district court doing the same," 从联邦/州的分权制衡理论上，我认为这么说法有一定道理，但是 1）经验丰富的法官，找程序上的漏洞进行判决，而不去看案件本身的合理性，这是他们最常用的手段之一 2）In her dissent, Kagan, joined by Breyer and Sotomayor, slammed the majority as abandoning voters'' rights during the pandemic. "As the COVID pandemic rages," Kagan wrote, "the Court has failed to adequately protect the Nation''s voters." "Tens of thousands of Wisconsinites, through no fault of their own, may receive their ballots too late to return them by Election Day," she said. Quoting a dissent penned by the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg earlier this year, Kagan said that voters must now opt between "braving the polls with all the risk that entails, and losing their right to vote." 3）整件事情能闹到最高法院，本身就是川普通过美国邮政故意操纵舞弊的结果。。。 新主管今年6月上任，离开选举只有短短几个月的时间，在疫情下，在明知道今年会有破纪录的海量邮寄选票的背景下，不但不早做准备，还要进一步降低自己的capacity，是啥意图？ 川普自己都说了，反对给邮政系统的紧急拨款，就是不希望民众去邮寄选票。。https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/13/politics/trump-usps-funding-comments-2020-election/index.html
回复 73楼urthur的帖子 PA和WI， 两个case的区别，主要就是所谓的州选举权。。 The federal district court, Roberts wrote in a concurring opinion, "intervened in the thick of election season" to block a state law. He said the case represented "federal intrusion on state lawmaking processes." The Pennsylvania case, on the other hand, concerned a decision by the state''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''s highest court. Roberts said that decision "implicated the authority of state courts to apply their own constitutions to election regulations." "Different bodies of law and different precedents govern these two situations and require, in these particular circumstances, that we allow the modification of election rules in Pennsylvania but not Wisconsin," Roberts wrote. 基本上就是认为一个州如何投票，由该州自己决定，这不是联邦该管的事。。 PA的判决是州法院做的，所以最高法院承认其在这件事上的权威性。。 WI的判决是联邦法院做的，所以最高法院认为联邦法院介入州选举不妥，所以驳回。。 其实也就Roberts一个人有这看法 "The only justice to view these cases differently than the ones from Pennsylvania was the Chief Justice, for whom there''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''s apparently a categorical difference between a state Supreme Dourt extending election deadlines, which he refused to upend, and a federal district court doing the same," 从联邦/州的分权制衡理论上，我认为这么说法有一定道理，但是 1）经验丰富的法官，找程序上的漏洞进行判决，而不去看案件本身的合理性，这是他们最常用的手段之一 2）In her dissent, Kagan, joined by Breyer and Sotomayor, slammed the majority as abandoning voters'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' rights during the pandemic. "As the COVID pandemic rages," Kagan wrote, "the Court has failed to adequately protect the Nation''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''s voters." "Tens of thousands of Wisconsinites, through no fault of their own, may receive their ballots too late to return them by Election Day," she said. Quoting a dissent penned by the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg earlier this year, Kagan said that voters must now opt between "braving the polls with all the risk that entails, and losing their right to vote." 3）整件事情能闹到最高法院，本身就是川普通过美国邮政故意操纵舞弊的结果。。。 新主管今年6月上任，离开选举只有短短几个月的时间，在疫情下，在明知道今年会有破纪录的海量邮寄选票的背景下，不但不早做准备，还要进一步降低自己的capacity，是啥意图？ 川普自己都说了，反对给邮政系统的紧急拨款，就是不希望民众去邮寄选票。。https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/13/politics/trump-usps-funding-comments-2020-election/index.html
Namama 发表于 2020-11-05 16:58
1）经验丰富的法官，找程序上的漏洞进行判决，而不去看案件本身的合理性，这是他们最常用的手段之一 如果他的理由一致，那就应该给人benefit of doubt, Biden不是最爱讲吗？don''''t question people''''s motivation 2）In her dissent, Kagan, joined by Breyer and Sotomayor, slammed the majority as abandoning voters'''' rights during the pandemic. "As the COVID pandemic rages," Kagan wrote, "the Court has failed to adequately protect the Nation''''s voters." "Tens of thousands of Wisconsinites, through no fault of their own, may receive their ballots too late to return them by Election Day," she said. Quoting a dissent penned by the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg earlier this year, Kagan said that voters must now opt between "braving the polls with all the risk that entails, and losing their right to vote." 在保持社交距离并戴口罩的情况下去投个票就一定会是生死存亡的事件吗。。。这个tens of thousands的一定收不到或晚受到ballot数据是怎么来的？借用上面某个ID的逻辑：我的ballot提前一个月就到了，所以别人肯定也没问题 :P (开玩笑） 3）整件事情能闹到最高法院，本身就是川普通过美国邮政故意操纵舞弊的结果。。。 每个州都有secure drop-off locations. 为什么一定要通过邮局？为什么邮局肯定能决定成败？ 选择mail-in就是因为不用等到最后一天poll station开的时候去投票, 为什么不能提早投？ 右党在不认为mail-in ballot足够secure的情况下，也确实没动力帮忙push。虽然这不对。 voting is civic duty, 美国还有什么是duty, 比如参军，比如jury，既然是duty自己也要努努力啊。
回复 96楼urthur的帖子 你基本上说的就是，即使有新冠，即使邮寄会delay，作为个人也要克服所有这些困难去投票，自己为自己的civic duty努力。。 而我说的就是，这次选举中，川普这方在刻意制造这种投票的困难 Voter suppression: Voter suppression is a strategy used to influence the outcome of an election by discouraging or preventing specific groups of people from voting.
回复 96楼urthur的帖子 你基本上说的就是，即使有新冠，即使邮寄会delay，作为个人也要克服所有这些困难去投票，自己为自己的civic duty努力。。 而我说的就是，这次选举中，川普这方在刻意制造这种投票的困难 Voter suppression: Voter suppression is a strategy used to influence the outcome of an election by discouraging or preventing specific groups of people from voting. Namama 发表于 2020-11-05 17:25
The Postal Service failed to deliver 150,000 completed ballots to polling stations before Election Day, including 12,000 in five of the states where the U.S. still eagerly awaits a final count. The number of mailed ballots the Postal Service did not deliver by Election Day is expected to grow as more data is released in the coming days. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/05/usps-late-ballots-election/
再提醒一下，在30个州，选举日没收到的选票自动作废！
=============================== 旁边那个贴太乱了，我做了点research，整理了一下时间线，尽量加上具体新闻的链接，帮助大家了解查证整件事件的流程。。 零时做的research，肯定还漏掉了不少，欢迎大家补充
今年6月份，大选前几个月，川普任命Louis DeJoy为新的postmaster，主管邮政系统。这家伙是川普竞选的大金主 (mega donor) Louis DeJoy is a longtime Republican megadonor, and Trump ally (https://www.npr.org/2020/08/21/904346060/postmaster-general-faces-intense-scrutiny-amid-allegations-of-political-motives )
他上台后干嘛了呢？以节约经费为名，开始大规模缩减员工工作时间和路线，并拆除邮政系统中的自动拣选机 https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7wk9z/the-post-office-is-deactivating-mail-sorting-machines-ahead-of-the-election he announced an "organizational realignment" at the agency, These changes included a reduction in employee overtime hours and the elimination of postal-sorting machines.
The United States Postal Service is removing mail sorting machines from facilities around the country without any official explanation or reason given, In many cases, these are the same machines that would be tasked with sorting ballots,
虽然之后被人举报国会紧急叫停，但他短短几个月里拆了多少台机器呢？ “USPS had only 4,824 mail sorting machines in October 2019” “USPS removed 711 sorting machines this year, new court documents show” https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/usps-removed-711-sorting-machines/index.html 全国4800多台自动拣选机中的700多台被拆除。。。而这些机器每台都可以分拣“36,000 pieces of mail per hour, 24/7,”
当面对国会听证问讯的时候，Louis极其强硬表示不会把已经拆除的机器重新装回去 “There''s no intention to do that, they''re not needed, sir,” DeJoy said when asked by Sen. Gary Peters, D-Mich., whether the machines removed under his watch would be brought back.” https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/21/usps-chief-dejoy-no-intention-to-bring-back-removed-mail-sorting-machines.html
除了大规模拆自动分拣机，Louis开始减少邮政员工的整体工作时间。。 包括减少收取邮件的频率，减少late trips，缩短营业时间，关停网点，强迫到点下班/不许加班， Among the specifics are major changes to operations, such as leaving mail at delivery centers if it might delay carriers, ending extra and late trips (which help ensure all mail moves swiftly) and limiting “park points” where carriers park their vehicles and walk to make deliveries.
USPS加快了拆除/减少邮箱的工作 USPS removes mail collection boxes and reduces post office hours as critics accuse Trump administration of voter suppression https://www.abc57.com/news/usps-removes-mail-collection-boxes-and-reduces-post-office-hours-as-critics-accuse-trump-administration-of-voter-suppression 被媒体曝光后，USPS被迫宣布将暂停在西部各州拆除邮箱。(但貌似东部，中部的拆除继续？没找到后续报导） USPS will stop removing letter collection boxes in Western states until after the election https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/14/politics/usps-removes-letter-collection-boxes-reduces-post-office-operating-hours/index.html
随着员工工作时间缩减和机器的拆除，USPS邮件准点率开始下降。。DeJoy, a major donor to Republicans and committees supporting Trump’s reelection, admitted in the hearing that “certainly there was a slowdown in the mail when our production did not meet the schedule.” USPS自己承认，有46个州，邮寄选票在选举日可能无法按时送到 USPS warned 46 states that it can''''''''''''''''t guarantee that all mail-in-ballots would arrive on time to be counted https://www.businessinsider.com/usps-warned-states-mail-ballots-may-not-arrive-time-2020-8
面对这个问题，民主党众议院通过提案，紧急拨款250亿美元给美国邮政，以应对即将到来的美国大选。。https://www.wsj.com/articles/house-set-to-vote-on-bill-barring-postal-service-cuts-11598088602
但川普强烈反对拨款 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/white-house-rejects-house-bill-for-emergency-postal-service-aid-2020-08-23 White House chief of staff Mark Meadows rejected the legislation the House passed late Saturday to provide $25 billion and block operational changes by Postmaster General Louis DeJoy.
Trump on Thursday again came out against that proposal on the grounds that it would help the USPS handle mail-in ballots, which he wrongfully believes would lead to voter fraud.
250亿美元的紧急拨款最终被卡在了共和党控制的参议院 https://www.vox.com/2020/9/10/21429678/senate-stimulus-vote
这次大选有6500万张邮寄选票 （https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/03/us/elections/mail-ballot-counting-vote.html) 大选当天的准时率才80% （https://www.cbsnews.com/news/usps-postal-service-delivery-rates-slower/）
在一些关键摇摆州，邮件准时率更是低的令人发指 https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/04/2020-presidential-election-postal-data-shows-ballot-delivery-rate.html in South Florida, just 85.12% of the mail-in ballots were delivered on Election Day. In central Pennsylvania, just 61.3% of the mail-ballots in the postal system were delivered on time In Philadelphia, slightly more than 66% of the mail-in ballots had been delivered on Election Day. In Atlanta 82.2% percent of the mail-in ballots were delivered on Election Day, the court filing shows. Detroit postal facilities reported less than 79% percent of mail-in ballots delivered that day. In Greensboro, North Carolina, 72.9% percent of the mail-in ballots were delivered on Tuesday. And in Lakeland, Wisconsin, slightly less than 77% of such ballots were delivered, the filing revealed.
邮件没有准时投递会有啥影响？ There are 30 states that require absentee ballots be received by Election Day to be counted. 对于这30个州的选民来说，选举当天没受到的选票直接作废
因为担心邮寄delay，很多州都准备给邮寄选票多留点时间。比如说关键摇摆州WI 想多要求几天点票，结果直接被最高法院给否了。Last week, the Supreme Court quashed a Wisconsin court decision that would have given mail-in ballots an additional six days after Election Day to be counted. 最高法院5:3判的，这5票是哪方的法官投的？不用猜了吧？呵呵。。
这直接造成了，哪怕是选举日前1-2天寄出的选票，也会因为无法及时送到而被作废 "If you put your ballot in the mail yesterday or today and you live in a state where the deadline is tomorrow, your vote probably isn''t going to get counted,"
法官要求邮局在选举日当天对一些地区进行额外的检查，提高选票投递准时率，被无视 USPS disregards judge''s order to sweep 12 postal districts https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/03/election-ballot-delays-usps/
再看看几个摇摆州最终开票的差距，这是多大影响？
这时候川普在干嘛呢？ “Trump says hopefully states won''t be allowed to count ballots after Election Day, which is a normal part of the electoral process” https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-hopes-states-wont-allowed-count-ballots-after-election-day-2020-10 不光延误的选票作废，按时寄到的选票，他也不希望点完。
这算不算是系统性舞弊？ 现在川普这就叫是作弊了都赢不了！
PS: 回复那些所谓“赶紧去举报，不然别瞎嚷嚷“的人： Voter Suppression从来就不是一个是否违法的问题。。。
邮局人手不足，机器不足，不准时，违法吗？ 我拆掉点机器进行成本优化，违法吗？ 减少邮局的营业时间，违法吗？ 减少收邮件的频率，违法吗？ 街边的邮筒拆掉点，违法吗？
所以说这种做法实在太Low，很恶心
🔥 最新回帖
川粉并没有叫你白痴白粉，素质高下自己看吧！！
🛋️ 沙发板凳
据美媒？哪个美媒？
专业点找出来让大家看看啊。
好像还不让邮差加班。拆自动分拣线以设备陈旧为名，但并未告知什么时候安新设备，直接旧的拆掉。
隔壁楼刚贴了： 大量作弊证据浮出水面，估计很快又要被Twitter 封了，快去看！
https://m.huaren.us/showtopic.html?topicid=2615011
微信群里全是这种“据美媒”。出来一个川粉们就亢奋地大骂一个。
You may request an absentee ballot at any time before the deadlines, but ballots will be mailed out beginning on or about September 18, 2020 https://www.ny.gov/early-voting-and-absentee-voting-mail-or-dropbox
纽约州邮寄选票9月底就开始寄出去了，到11月份选举，中间隔了多久？ 几百上千万选民基数，其中有些人在寄出选票后因为种种原因死了，这难道不可能？不正常？
除了脑子进水的川粉，真有人会相信民主党需要在纽约那种深蓝地方作弊吗？
这不是微信群 这是观察者网 不知道这家媒体的去狗一下
观蔡者网很关注美国大选，两边候选人相关新闻动向都报了，并没有倾向性。 他们主推了两个人解说美国大选，其中一个是最近的网红教授沈逸，解说更新频繁，说得还可以。
选举开始前几个月，民主党开始讨论在covid期间in person选举的安全性。毕竟covid还是来势汹汹，我们也需要保证选举工作者和志愿者的安全。很多选举志愿者都是老年人，他们自己也担心健康问题。
于是民主党提到，可以采用mail in投票方式。减少covid风险。
川普立刻就跳了，大骂mail in ballot会造成fraud。完全无视几点实事： 第一，mail in ballot已经存在几十年了。海外军人都是用mail in ballot方式投票。 第二，川普家人自己也是用mail in ballot方式从纽约投票。 第三，川普在喷absentee ballot没事，但是mail in ballot是fraud。但是事实是mail in ballot和absentee ballot根本就是同一回事。
记得，川普的白人base是不怕不相信covid的。所以他们会采用in person voting。
于是乎，共和党开始疯狂压制mail in ballot因为他们知道mail in ballot大部分是民主党。
于是乎lz提到的各种usps闹剧出现了。
于是乎，在某些州，民主党上诉阻止mail in ballot在election date开始之前提前数票。在某些州，民主党上诉阻止mail in ballot在election date之后被数票。
基本上尽可能阻止mail in ballot 被数票。
以Florida为例，虽然是摇摆州，FL允许mail in ballot提前数。这就是为什么FL结果出的那么早。FL并且规定mail in ballot必须在election date下午收到。过期不收。
宾州政策是mail in ballot截止日期是election date之后三天（不对请指正）。
这个rule和党派啊根本无关，多年来都是这么要求的。现在川普的base狂跳，说好的law and order呢。
最后再加一点，现在狂热的川普base在川普已经领先的地方大喊：stop counting！在川普落后的地方大喊：keep counting！
真是一言难尽啊！
川普团队说的的很多美媒指的是大纪元，这不是我说的，是纽约时报说的。
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/24/technology/epoch-times-influence-falun-gong.html?_ga=2.90885209.276553464.1604605944-1752459455.1604605944
“于是乎，在某些州，民主党上诉阻止mail in ballot在election date开始之前提前数票。在某些州，民主党上诉阻止mail in ballot在election date之后被数票。“
你打错了
是GOP控制的州议会就不允许提前数票
然后Trump的律师团到处sue允许提前数票的州。。。比如北卡。。。
对。谢谢指证。
我也觉得是，比如邮箱给拆了，自动分拣机给卸了，邮寄选票寄不到。
换个思路，川普为什么鼓动川粉亲自投票？也许他也对邮寄选票是否能按时寄到没什么信心。
不是这俩月才死的，都已经死好几年了:
https://www.nypost.com/2020/11/02/dead-people-caught-voting-in-nyc-elections-records-show/amp/
But there’s a problem: Frances Reckhow, who was born on July 6, 1915, and would be 105 today, died in 2012, according to an obituary filed with the Staten Island Advance.
An absentee ballot was also mailed from a Gertrude Nizzere, also a registered Democrat, who was born on Feb. 7, 1919, and would be 101 today.
The BOE said someone identifying as Gertrude Nizzere, with an address of Shore Road in Brooklyn, requested an absentee ballot in September.
Republicans discovered that Nizzere died on July 4, 2016, and is buried in Calverton cemetery.
同一个项目，A党说要在家做，方便。B党说有安全问题，不可以带回家做，要在公司做。A党跳起来大骂B党不配合就是下作。 但实际上两边的concern都有道理，就是没人愿意退一步。不论谁，把问题都说成是对手的，很没品。
民主党喜欢说自己公平公正透明。但一个死人都可以去投票，且没办法track的系统，透明在哪里？别人一质疑就给你扣大帽子。这难道不是在说谎话？不是恶言恶语？
为什么这么common sense的东西需要这样辩论呢？邮寄就是更容易作弊呀，邮寄选票上有防伪吗？
到底谁拦着了你不让复查了？川粉说话能不能带上脑子？ 川皇已经开打几十个官司了，而且即将打几百个，而且你家川皇是总统，不是个傀儡，想彻查谁拦得住？ 你是对川普一点信心都没有啊
人脸识别，人脸识别
今年真是要被面罩吓出病来了，太魔幻。
你没在美国投过票？每张选票上有条形码可以track。。
而且这是general election，选票除了总统外上还有当地州一级乃至county甚至city一级的相关选举/议案。。。 很难大规模伪造投票。。
赞一个， 每一个数据都给了出处。就算是我看不懂英文和中文，都可以看出来这不是川粉的帖子。
那你解释一下，为什么大统领家的选票要用MAIL IN 的方式？
大统领的事情不容贱民叽歪，他老人家投100次都可以，别说什么mail in了
川粉听不进去，在川粉眼里，只有川普赢了，才是真的。 川普输了，就是作弊。 脑子是个好东西，可惜川粉从来没有
屎地粪坑，你换地方挖坑了？
小规模的absentee voting, 跟上千万的mass mail in, 是同一回事吗? 一个理论就算可行，也要execution 靠谱呀!
更别说这系统一开始就被人质疑
选举经常在这种事情上斗来斗去，很多时候上不了台面。英国脱欧好像就是一场大雨闹的。 mail in 投票有很多好处，一边上网了解选项一边思考慢慢投。现场投票其实很多人后面的选项根本没有仔细研究过。
你的意思是统领家用就行，如果别人也跟着用，就不行？
如果不行，甚至质疑，大统领根本就不应当用啊，你用一个你自己怀疑的，不要让别人用的系统？？LOL. 果然是双标的典范
请看我原话
小规模的absentee voting, 跟上千万的mass mail in, 是同一回事吗? 一个理论就算可行，也要execution 靠谱呀!
更别说这系统一开始就被人质疑
所以，跟谁用没关系，跟怎么做有关系。mass mail in里的欺诈 比absentee 左右大选结果的可能要高，在这种争议很大的竞选中，非常两极化的环境里，这种doubt 只会增加更多的愤恨
原因很简单
第一，相信科学的美国人会有一部分，如果要是只能亲自投票，就会因为疫情原因不去了，选举当天肯定人很多，川普就是变相鼓励不要命的来投票，希望吓退更惜命的。川粉里当然不相信科学不要命的比例更大，这样川普胜算就大了一点。
第二，他的铁粉proud boys在投票点附近聚集恐吓，进一步吓退其它选民，有些不愿意生事的人就待在家里不去了
说白了他就是很了解自己支持者什么德行，通过这些小动作鼓励自己支持者投票，尽量打击其他选民的投票积极性
倒打一耙黑白颠倒真厉害啊，逃税是联邦重罪，避税是合法合理的。
是谁在还没有查， 就开始给人扣输不起的帽子呀？ 好像跟floyd 的案子还没查清，就先扣上 种族歧视的帽子一样哟。
有点太着急了，心虚吗？ 支持彻查！ 猪党如果现在已经可以一手遮天了，美国这所谓的‘投票’ 也没啥意思了，就是糊弄糊弄屁民，以为能表达自己的民意。
现场投票不可以研究好每个候选人再去？如果不想了解随便投的mail in也会是一样的。
太恶心了!
真是受不了川粉的阴谋论了。
大家赶紧查一查自己选票有没有被数到吧!
是法律都有漏洞，靠漏洞逃税就是作弊就是逃税，只是合有漏洞的法罢了，屎外面包一层金色锡纸也成不了巧克力。
Dem知不知道这回事?
系统提示：若遇到视频无法播放请点击下方链接
https://www.youtube.com/embed/TZu5iCTlFUk 哪里是在踩拜登, 这段话是在说床铺铁粉会用阴谋论来指责拜登方通过邮寄选票作弊.
这个图的制作者把沈怡的话掐头去尾,语意就完全反过来了. 大家从18分钟开始看.
典型轮子川粉郭蚂蚁的无耻左派
事实上，很可能民主党这几年学乖了，用的都是“纯白”的英文土名。 最近几个月我收到过好几封这样寄给莫名其妙的美国人的信。地址都是对的。
大家都知道啊。你没看lz每一条都有依据吗？
Reddit，Instagrams之类年轻人聚集的网站这几个月也是一直在追踪讨论。
唯一不知道的或者选择看不见的就是华人自媒体的followers。
没有不让查。file lawsuit时候要给出充足的理由和证据，川总团队在佐治亚和密歇根的诉讼不是被地方法官秒拒了？多难看。 还有，要彻查就先把经费备好，川总团队已经开始募集资金了，别在帖子里喊，行动起来，钱包掏出来先。
这个帖子说好多选票被作废了, Dem有任何办法吗?
这种系统性舞弊说明美国体制的一个弊病。总统权力无边界。两院加法院制衡力非常有限。
碰上无底线的总统，有很大为所欲为的空间。
民主党只能眼睁睁看着床铺广天化日下做这些事情确不能及时有效制止。
这是床铺又一次使用总统权力打击政治对手， impeachable offense。
床铺四年充分说明，美国体制有相当大的缺陷可以被野心家 exploit.
？？？轮子川粉算左派？ 郭蚂蚁又是什么鬼？ 怎么搞的跟国内粉圈似的各种黑话和标签
估计没有什么办法。只是希望每一个election office能够尽量公平公正。
其实每一次的总统大选都有这样那样的问题。也有很多人在讨论修改electoral voting system。虽然electoral voting是founding fathers创立的，但是几百年下来都没有被improved过。有一些rule肯定已经过时了。
但是现在谁敢说改electoral voting rules肯定又要被喷成极左。
今年太chaotic，太divided，太荒谬了。
又是猪又是狗的，你到底生活在一个什么猪狗不如的环境里啊，说话这么脏。
打字错了，做派。
就是说你贴的那个是法轮功，川粉，郭文贵follower之类的人搞的颠倒黑白的东西。这些人造谣成性，毫无底线。
是的.即时打赢了官司也救不回这些选票.这也太不公平了.
据我几个月来的观察，这是川粉说话的共性，想要平和理性的交谈都不能够
我理解是没啥好办法的。。
因为那些州的选举法明确规定选举日以后才收到的选票自动作废。。。 想针对目前疫情期间邮寄选票激增而做些调整的，也被共和党控制的最高法院给否了。。
而邮局delay你可以骂，但他不违法呀。。
所以这么做才特别恶心。。
法律有漏洞赶快去改税法去。不然犯了什么法？
另外加一点，原帖暗示supreme court夹杂私货不给wisconsin投票extension
原帖内容： ”因为担心邮寄delay，很多州都准备给邮寄选票多留点时间。比如说关键摇摆州WI 想多要求几天点票，结果直接被最高法院给否了。Last week, the Supreme Court quashed a Wisconsin court decision that would have given mail-in ballots an additional six days after Election Day to be counted. 最高法院5:3判的，这5票是哪方的法官投的？不用猜了吧？呵呵。。“
实际上WI民主党被拒是因为他们接近大选才要求临时改变州内选举的规则。为什么不写supreme court的理由，而是直接下partisan定论？ https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/26/supreme-court-wont-extend-wisconsin-ballot-deadline-432656
supreme court同意另外一个摇摆州pennsylvania的extension又怎么解释？大选后PA三天内收到的，即使没有postmark的ballot也算有效投票。那时候针对PA的判决4-4。也就是说有一个投了PA却拒绝WI的大法官认为WI没有merit
Pennsylvania has been the subject of scrutiny for days leading up to the election as a deadlocked U.S. Supreme Court declined to overturn the Pennsylvania Supreme Court’s decision to extend the mail-in ballot deadline. That decision, in favor of requests made by the Secretary of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Kathy Boockvar, allowed ballots received by Nov. 6 to be counted unless a “preponderance of the evidence” showed that a ballot was mailed after Election Day. The ruling by Pennsylvania’s highest court also stipulated that ballots without a time-stamped postmark received up to three days after the election could be counted. “Ballots received within this period that lack a postmark or other proof of mailing, or for which the postmark or other proof of mailing is illegible, should enjoy a presumption that they were mailed by Election Day,” the ruling from the Pennsylvania court said.
The Supreme Court reached a 4-4 tie in October after Republicans requested that the Court put the Pennsylvania decision on hold over concerns of ballot integrity. In anticipation of further litigation over the matter, Boockvar said that any ballots received after Election Day would be counted but that they would remain segregated from the rest of the count if a challenge to their validity is upheld.
https://foxbaltimore.com/news/nation-world/supreme-court-decision-on-pennsylvania-ballots-now-looms-large
partisan argument最后的结果跟identity politics一样，会让选民越来越两极化
所以民主党在大选前希望给邮政系统250亿特殊拨款，让他们有资源可以对系统进行提升。。
但大统领明确反对啊。。 https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/13/politics/trump-usps-funding-comments-2020-election/index.html
President Donald Trump said Thursday that he opposes much-needed funding for the United States Postal Service because he doesn't want to see it used for mail-in voting this November.
川普就是不希望别人去邮寄投票。。。
哈哈哈我们local群里也有那个图，假的不能再假了。ps 隔壁川粉说叫他们川粉是脏话，ummmmm
不懂就别瞎说。华州每个登记选民都会收到邮寄选票，你可以事先填好用邮局免费寄或自己投到选票箱，也可以选举当天去投票站投。华州选民绝大多数都是选择的前者，多少年了都是这样，没谁说fraud。
kao, 太恶心了.
这个是很恶心的…… 特别是懂王还贼喊捉贼
re。这就是为什么在选举前根本没法在这个论坛上发帖。
不管说什么都被喷五毛，廊坊。根本没法交流。
深蓝州。我们家担心新冠感染，选择了Mail In，申请的时候同时提供了邮箱。为了不给邮局添麻烦（担心邮局拖延），下午五点左右送去了Drop In箱子，第二天早上邮箱收到确认邮件 。所以这次投票系统方便快捷，与时俱进。
难怪佛州作弊赢了。那个局长花了几百万买到的官位
人类文明进程任重道远
说实在话，如果不是今天亲身核实一个死人也可以投票的例子（而且无法证明这人投票被数还是reject。希望州里系统里别这点tracking 能力都没有)，我也不会这么震惊。
这种数量也许很低，但麻烦就是不知道到底问题有多大。
能这么搞还可以年复一年圈钱忽悠人的行业，也只有政治圈和pollster了
和我们家一模一样！非常顺利的经历！
所以我觉得民主党造票还是有的，至于川粉一上来就几十万张选票从后备箱里拿出来就是智商问题了，共和党故意让邮局减员delay投递，民主党多发mail in ballot，一个人多发几次，反正民主党只要claim只算最后一次的，其实前面的怎么保证都扔掉也是个问题，在选举这个问题上，美国两党都很ugly，但是像川普这么乱叫就是撒泼打滚了，他没抓到民主党的证据，他操控USPS的事却被人抓了个现行
说实在话两边都没有什么诚信。
第一，mail in ballot不是民主党发的啊！ballot不是你想发，想发就能发的啊…都是要注册要申请的啊
第二，一个选民不可以收到多张mail in ballot的啊。一人一张的啊！每张都是有barcode有tracking的啊。
其实前面的怎么保证都扔掉也是个问题
不是问题,一人只有一票,多余的纸片不起作用.
对
为什么电视里一句话都不提这件事啊
PA和WI， 两个case的区别，主要就是所谓的州选举权。。
The federal district court, Roberts wrote in a concurring opinion, "intervened in the thick of election season" to block a state law. He said the case represented "federal intrusion on state lawmaking processes."
The Pennsylvania case, on the other hand, concerned a decision by the state''s highest court. Roberts said that decision "implicated the authority of state courts to apply their own constitutions to election regulations." "Different bodies of law and different precedents govern these two situations and require, in these particular circumstances, that we allow the modification of election rules in Pennsylvania but not Wisconsin," Roberts wrote.
基本上就是认为一个州如何投票，由该州自己决定，这不是联邦该管的事。。 PA的判决是州法院做的，所以最高法院承认其在这件事上的权威性。。 WI的判决是联邦法院做的，所以最高法院认为联邦法院介入州选举不妥，所以驳回。。
其实也就Roberts一个人有这看法 "The only justice to view these cases differently than the ones from Pennsylvania was the Chief Justice, for whom there''s apparently a categorical difference between a state Supreme Dourt extending election deadlines, which he refused to upend, and a federal district court doing the same,"
从联邦/州的分权制衡理论上，我认为这么说法有一定道理，但是 1）经验丰富的法官，找程序上的漏洞进行判决，而不去看案件本身的合理性，这是他们最常用的手段之一
2）In her dissent, Kagan, joined by Breyer and Sotomayor, slammed the majority as abandoning voters'' rights during the pandemic. "As the COVID pandemic rages," Kagan wrote, "the Court has failed to adequately protect the Nation''s voters." "Tens of thousands of Wisconsinites, through no fault of their own, may receive their ballots too late to return them by Election Day," she said. Quoting a dissent penned by the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg earlier this year, Kagan said that voters must now opt between "braving the polls with all the risk that entails, and losing their right to vote."
3）整件事情能闹到最高法院，本身就是川普通过美国邮政故意操纵舞弊的结果。。。
新主管今年6月上任，离开选举只有短短几个月的时间，在疫情下，在明知道今年会有破纪录的海量邮寄选票的背景下，不但不早做准备，还要进一步降低自己的capacity，是啥意图？
川普自己都说了，反对给邮政系统的紧急拨款，就是不希望民众去邮寄选票。。 https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/13/politics/trump-usps-funding-comments-2020-election/index.html
每张选票都有unique bar code，一扫描就知道这人是否之前投票过，是否在注册选民名单里，统计时候不会被统计两遍的。。
哎，没办法，有人就是不信非营利和各级政府里的黑暗操作，直到自己摊上事儿
1）经验丰富的法官，找程序上的漏洞进行判决，而不去看案件本身的合理性，这是他们最常用的手段之一 如果他的理由一致，那就应该给人benefit of doubt, Biden不是最爱讲吗？don''''t question people''''s motivation
2）In her dissent, Kagan, joined by Breyer and Sotomayor, slammed the majority as abandoning voters'''' rights during the pandemic. "As the COVID pandemic rages," Kagan wrote, "the Court has failed to adequately protect the Nation''''s voters." "Tens of thousands of Wisconsinites, through no fault of their own, may receive their ballots too late to return them by Election Day," she said. Quoting a dissent penned by the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg earlier this year, Kagan said that voters must now opt between "braving the polls with all the risk that entails, and losing their right to vote."
在保持社交距离并戴口罩的情况下去投个票就一定会是生死存亡的事件吗。。。这个tens of thousands的一定收不到或晚受到ballot数据是怎么来的？借用上面某个ID的逻辑：我的ballot提前一个月就到了，所以别人肯定也没问题 :P (开玩笑）
3）整件事情能闹到最高法院，本身就是川普通过美国邮政故意操纵舞弊的结果。。。 每个州都有secure drop-off locations. 为什么一定要通过邮局？为什么邮局肯定能决定成败？ 选择mail-in就是因为不用等到最后一天poll station开的时候去投票, 为什么不能提早投？ 右党在不认为mail-in ballot足够secure的情况下，也确实没动力帮忙push。虽然这不对。 voting is civic duty, 美国还有什么是duty, 比如参军，比如jury，既然是duty自己也要努努力啊。
一堆没用的.就说这个邮局拖延导致选票作废就行了.
你基本上说的就是，即使有新冠，即使邮寄会delay，作为个人也要克服所有这些困难去投票，自己为自己的civic duty努力。。
而我说的就是，这次选举中，川普这方在刻意制造这种投票的困难
Voter suppression: Voter suppression is a strategy used to influence the outcome of an election by discouraging or preventing specific groups of people from voting.
the end of democracy